Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[seeking the lost]

12 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The unbelievers are left behind. But there will be a huge harvest of those who come to Christ during the tribulation.

But Jesus says that the tares, the ones that are sown by the evil one, will be gathered first to be burned.  I must have it backward.

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

But Jesus says that the tares, the ones that are sown by the evil one, will be gathered first to be burned.  I must have it backward.

The tares are collected first before the New Heaven and the New Earth are formed.  The burning does not take place until after the Mill.at the Great White Throne Judgment.  So this parable has nothing to do with the Rapture.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The tares are collected first before the New Heaven and the New Earth are formed.  The burning does not take place until after the Mill.at the Great White Throne Judgment.  So this parable has nothing to do with the Rapture.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The point that this parable makes is that at the end of the age before the righteous are gathered, the tares are gathered out to be burned.  This is the explanation of the parable.

The Parable of the Tares Explained

³⁶ Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

³⁷ He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. ³⁸ The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. ³⁹ The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. ⁴⁰ Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. ⁴¹ The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, ⁴² and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ⁴³ Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Check out the words from Rev.14 in light of this parable.

 

Reaping the Grapes of Wrath

¹⁷ Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” ¹⁹ So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. ²⁰ And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

Think of this.  The wheat and the tares grow up together.  At the end of the age the harvest is pronounced.  The wheat are not gathered out first.  The tares are gathered out first.

[Montana Marv]

When are the tares thrown into the furnace, for that is the end of that age.  Great White Throne Judgment 

The winepress event takes place near Armageddon. Before the Mill.

In Christ 

Montana Marv

[seeking the lost]

35 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

When are the tares thrown into the furnace, for that is the end of that age.  Great White Throne Judgment 

The winepress event takes place near Armageddon. Before the Mill.

In Christ 

Montana Marv

Yes that is what Jesus said, The harvest is the end of the age.  This is that.

[seeking the lost]

7 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

That is not the Rapture 

In Christ 

Montana Marv

This points to the fact that the rapture is an addition to the text that is not there nor supportable without curse.  The pre-trib rapture as I understand it takes the wheat out first then leaves the tares behind.

[Montana Marv]

What about the tares who follow Satan after the Mill. I am Pre Trib. Before the Mill. I am not Post Mill.

In Christ 

Montana Marv

[HAZARD]

25 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

What about the tares who follow Satan after the Mill. I am Pre Trib. Before the Mill. I am not Post Mill.

In Christ 

Montana Marv

  Rev. 20: 7, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9, And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

They will end up in the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. GOOD JOB!

[TheMatrixHasU71]

Hazard, I know this is a few weeks since you wrote this so you may not see it, but no, Just as Christ had a body we could see and touch we too will have physical forms.

 

Natural body simply means a body born with the weakness and temptations of the sinful nature. Spiritual body means a body that is free of sin

[Retrobyter]

On 7/17/2016 at 8:57 AM, seeking the lost said:

But Jesus says that the tares, the ones that are sown by the evil one, will be gathered first to be burned.  I must have it backward.

Shalom, "seeking the lost."

What Yeshua` said is NOT about this current time in which we live! Yeshua` said that this was a parable ABOUT His Kingdom, "The kingdom of heaven (the Kingdom from the sky) is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field," which doesn't begin until He returns:

Luke 19:11-15, 27-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
...
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

He also said,

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

While we can think of ourselves as subjects for His Kingdom in this present life, it's an error to think His Kingdom has already started! Thus, His Kingdom doesn't begin until the Millennium and in the wheat and tares parable, he said,

Matthew 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (Greek: aioonos = "age").
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

And, this is reflected in the Resurrection chapter, where Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits (the sampling); (1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Thus, the children of the evil one are not "gathered first to be burned" until AFTER the Millennium, which fits with Revelation 20, where John said,

Revelation 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

And, it is AFTER this chapter that we read,

Revelation 21:1-4
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

See how all these passages fit together?