Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Quasar93]

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church 

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar93

Edited December 7, 2016 by Quasar93

[seeking the lost]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

Greetings seeking the lost:  1 Thess.4 16 where Paul wrote, "the dead in Christ will rise first," is not a resurrection.  If it was, it would have to be the first one.  Which would be in conflict with the one Jesus advised John, the one of the tribulation martyrs/saints, in Rev.20:4, seven years later, is the first one [As recorded in verse 5]

Greetings Quasar93:  I do not understand how "the dead in Christ will rise first," is not a resurrection.  Why would it have to be the first one?  The first resurrection is clearly defined by John when he said, "this is the first resurrection."  Those included in the first resurrection are identified as those who had been faithful unto death during the time of the beast.  This is a closed set it does not include anyone who is not mentioned and it is not a good idea to add to their number others not included.  The stated purpose of this first resurrection is that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years.  They are not going up in the air according to the text.  These who reign with Christ will not be deceived when satan is loosed at the end of the thousand years.

Rev:20, 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The resurrection is not the time of being absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  The resurrection is that time when the body and the soul are reunited.  Raised from the grave.  It is the reason that the body is buried facing east.

[Quasar93]

3 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Greetings Quasar93:  I do not understand how "the dead in Christ will rise first," is not a resurrection.  Why would it have to be the first one?  The first resurrection is clearly defined by John when he said, "this is the first resurrection."  Those included in the first resurrection are identified as those who had been faithful unto death during the time of the beast.  This is a closed set it does not include anyone who is not mentioned and it is not a good idea to add to their number others not included.  The stated purpose of this first resurrection is that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years.  They are not going up in the air according to the text.  These who reign with Christ will not be deceived when satan is loosed at the end of the thousand years.

Rev:20, 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The resurrection is not the time of being absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  The resurrection is that time when the body and the soul are reunited.  Raised from the grave.  It is the reason that the body is buried facing east.

Greetings seeking the lost:

I explained by Scripture, why 1 Thess.4:16 is not a resurrection.  Paul is addressing the [Thessalonian] Church.  Seven years later Jesus is revealing to John, the tribulation martyrs/saints are the FIRST resurrection in Rev.20:4.

The tribulation martyrs/saints are the same multitude as those recorded in Rev.7:9-17, who are brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in Rev.7:1-8, God will place on the earth in the absence of the departed Church, as He will do with His two witnesses in Rev.11:3.  They were the ones left behind, when the Church is Caught Up. raptured, to be with the Lord, BEFORE the tribulation begins, as documented symbolically in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.  As explained in the first, of my two posts covering the Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul.

Unless I mistake what you have implied, those who RISE first in 1 Thess.4:16, have nothing at all to do with the FIRST resurrection of the tribulation martyrs/saints, in Rev.20:4.  The two evens are seven years apart, in the first place, in the second place, the Church age ends at the rapture of the Church.  Those who are resurrected in Rev.20:4, do not belong to the Church.  In the third place, Jesus returns to earth from the marriage to the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus , in heaven, WITH His Church, all believers prior to the tribulation, as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 24, PRIOR to the FIRST resurrection in Rev.20:4.

After Jesus return to the earth, in Rev.19:14, He will establish His kingdom on earth for 1,000 years, according to Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:10 among many other passages.  The second resurrection will take place at the end of Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth at the Great White Throne Judgment in Rev.20:11-15, according to Rev.20:5.

Every believer who dies before the Lord returns for His Church, left here on earth alive at His coming, in Jn.14:2-3 and 26 and 1 Thess.4:16, is going to return from heaven with Jesus when He comes, as recorded in verse 14.  They are all firstfruits, who each died in his/her own generation, until the major harvest takes place at the pre-trib rapture of the Church.  None of which has a thing to do with any resurrection.

I have purposely left out other events that also take place in between these relevant events, because they are irrelevant.

What Paul meant in 1 Thess.4:6, by the dead in Christ rising first, was the fourth of his assurances to the Thessalonians, that their dead in Christ would not miss the rapture of the Church he had been teaching them about, beginning in 1 Thess.4:13, in 14 he explains why, mentions it again in 15 and ends it in 16.

 

God Bless!

 

Quasar93

 

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

I have purposely left out other events that also take place in between these relevant events, because they are irrelevant.

What Paul meant in 1 Thess.4:6, by the dead in Christ rising first, was the fourth of his assurances to the Thessalonians, that their dead in Christ would not miss the rapture of the Church he had been teaching them about, beginning in 1 Thess.4:13, in 14 he explains why, mentions it again in 15 and ends it in 16.

Paul connected the resurrection of the rest of the dead, those not included in the first resurrection, with the rapture.  The we shall not precede them is an assurance that the resurrection is not past.  These, the dead in Christ at the time of the writing, will be raised first then the rapture occurs.  There is not a pre tribulation rapture because there is not a pre tribulation resurrection.  At the end of the age the angles are deployed to gather out the tares to be burned.  The first ones taken out are the tares.  The wheat is after that gathered in.  Pre tribulation rapture denies this order and misrepresents the end and all events associated with it.

 

2 Timothy 2:  16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The resurrection is not passed.  The first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation.  Not a good idea to add a resurrection or resurrections to fit your doctrine.

[Quasar93]

3 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Paul connected the resurrection of the rest of the dead, those not included in the first resurrection, with the rapture.  The we shall not precede them is an assurance that the resurrection is not past.  These, the dead in Christ at the time of the writing, will be raised first then the rapture occurs.  There is not a pre tribulation rapture because there is not a pre tribulation resurrection.  At the end of the age the angles are deployed to gather out the tares to be burned.  The first ones taken out are the tares.  The wheat is after that gathered in.  Pre tribulation rapture denies this order and misrepresents the end and all events associated with it.

 

2 Timothy 2:  16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The resurrection is not passed.  The first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation.  Not a good idea to add a resurrection or resurrections to fit your doctrine.

It is clear, you have not read the two other posts of mine I added to this thread this morning.  They are the culmination of my research and studies under the late Dr. John Walvoord, former President of Dallas Theological Seminary and Dr. Dwight Pentecost, Dean at the same Seminary.  Covering a period of 34 years.

What you have presented is meaningless opinion, without supporting Scripture to verify your claims.  One thing I notice you fail to understand, is the fact that Jesus ministry during His first advent was EXCLUSIVELY to Israel, He made abundantly clear, in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.There are only three passages of Scripture in the combined Gospels that have anything to do with the Church at all.  They are all posted on the first of my two posts about the pre-trib rapture of the Church, today.  FYI. there are NO resurrectios that will take place BEFORE the first one in Rev.20:4, after the seven year tribulation has ended.

I will post the proper Biblical chronological order of end times events, in my next post, for your evaluation

 

Quasar93

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Quasar93

[Quasar93]

The prophetic chronological order of end times events as outlined in the Bible are as follows:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed.  All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel.  From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation.  The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8.  As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight  the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21.  And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in  Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
 9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13;  Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6.  They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church,  all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom  will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.  At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3.  Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15.  Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.
 15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.

 
Quasar93 

[Ezra]

14 hours ago, Redemption79 said:

i think it is cowardly for any Christians to want an easy way out

That is certainly not the way to regard the Rapture.  While Christ told Christians that " in this world ye shall have much tribulation" He also stated immediately after that "LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED".  Why?  Because He promised the Rapture even before His crucifixion.  

THIS IS FOR CHRISTIANS, NOT FOR THE WORLD

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

THE NEW JERUSALEM IN HEAVEN IS OUR DESTINATION

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

CHRIST IS THERE PREPARING A PLACE FOR US

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So this is not ChristianS taking the easy way out but God completely the salvation of the Church (which has no connection to the judgment of the unbelieving and ungodly). 

God has predestined every saint to be "conformed to the imagie of His Son".  Since Christ is perfect, the Church -- His Wife -- must also be perfected (body, soul, and spirit) before the Marriage of the Lamb.  That is what the Resurrection/Rapture is all about.

People who try to connect the Rapture to the Tribulation or the Great Tribulation seem to miss this basic truth again and again, and think there is some virtue in Christians coming under the same judgment as unbelievers.  Another subtle attempt to try and "prove" something to God, rather than rest in the merits of Christ.

But then they go one step further and denigrate the respected Christians who held (or hold) and taught (or teach) the Rapture truth.  Those ad hominem attacks are extremely savage and deplorable.

[seeking the lost]

13 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

What you have presented is meaningless opinion, without supporting Scripture to verify your claims.  One thing I notice you fail to understand, is the fact that Jesus ministry during His first advent was EXCLUSIVELY to Israel, He made abundantly clear, in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.There are only three passages of Scripture in the combined Gospels that have anything to do with the Church at all.  They are all posted on the first of my two posts about the pre-trib rapture of the Church, today.  FYI. there are NO resurrectios that will take place BEFORE the first one in Rev.20:4, after the seven year tribulation has ended.

I would like for you to express what it is about what I have written that indicates I do not understand that Jesus came to Israel?

If you are defending the pre tribulation rapture then your FYI makes no sense.  If that is the first resurrection and the rapture is linked to the resurrection there can not be a rapture before that.  You do understand the scripture which says, 

1 Thessalonians 4:16King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What part of this is my opinion?

[Quasar93]

9 hours ago, eileenhat said:

Yes.

I have a problem with my thoughts well ahead of the ability for my old stiff fingers to write those thoughts down.  I meant to say, there are no GENERAL resurrections until the seven year tribulation has ended, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21.

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

9 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

1. I would like for you to express what it is about what I have written that indicates I do not understand that Jesus came to Israel?

2. If you are defending the pre tribulation rapture then your FYI makes no sense.  If that is the first resurrection and the rapture is linked to the resurrection there can not be a rapture before that.  You do understand the scripture which says, 

1 Thessalonians 4:16King James Version (KJV)

3. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4. What part of this is my opinion?

1. The statement is unqualified without Scriptural verification as to where you are coming from.  Xhow me the Scripture that supports that statement.

2. Your post is what is without support, leaving a person to guess at the specifics of what you are saying.  While my response to you is fully supported with Scriptural verification.  As a qualified Bible teacher, I am defending nothing, but rather, posting the proper interpretation for the subject being discussed.  If I have posted something that makes no sense to you, then by all means spell out sp0ecifically what it is and I will be more than happy to make sense of it for you.

3. 1 Thess.4:16, is not a resurrection, as you and many other expositors believe.  The time frame of the event is when Jesus returns in the clouds of the sky and all believers will meet Him there,  From there, He will take us all to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-3 and 28.  Before the tribulation begins, as documented in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8, confirming the symbolic Rev.4:1-2 and the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-8.  When the tribulation is almost over, Jesus will return WITH His Church, in His armies from heaven, recorded in Rev.19:14.

4. All of it is that is not supported by Scripture, which then pin points the remarks you claim, or ewfutes them.

 

Quasar83