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Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture


George

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Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 are the same event
The following tables demonstrate very well that all three passages in the Bible that are referring to the second coming of Christ are precisely that. God never intended for His Word to be cryptic or some mountain of confusion where one or more passages are supposedly referring to the second coming and others to some supposed fictional secret rapture.

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come 15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep 15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump 15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first 15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia) 24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds 24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump 24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together 24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons 24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief 24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction 24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch 24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24 1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming Jesus coming At His coming
Trumpet Trumpet Last trump
Angels gather saints Dead saints raised Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints Living saints caught up Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds Coming in the clouds Not mentioned
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48 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Israel doesn't get rapture. They (a remnant of Israel) get sealed. The rapture is for the church. Please post something intelligent.

Who exactly is Israel,or do you mean the Jew's won't get raptured?

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1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Who exactly is Israel,or do you mean the Jew's won't get raptured?

n2,

We already went through this 3 years ago at CF. Do you actually want to go through all this again? If so, do I get to poke fun at you like I use to?

btw, if you didn't get it back then, what's gonna change this time? I see you're still post-trib. Anyways good to see you too. 

 

Edited by Psalms37:4
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1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

 

Matthew 24 1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming Jesus coming At His coming
Trumpet Trumpet Last trump
Angels gather saints Dead saints raised Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints Living saints caught up Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds Coming in the clouds Not mentioned

n2,

Here's 1 Cortinthians 15:51-58 in the King James.

Where does it say "At His Coming?" 

Where does it say or indicate "Dead saints  raised" or "Dead in Christ" as in caught up in the air like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Where does it say or indicate "Living saints" changed or Christians changed or body of Christ changed or any believers changed?

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 King James Version (KJV)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

Do you know what this mystery is really about?

 

 

Edited by Psalms37:4
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16 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

n2,

We already went through this 3 years ago at CF. Do you actually want to go through all this again? If so, do I get to poke fun at you like I use to?

btw, if you didn't get it back then, what's gonna change this time? I see you're still post-trib. Anyways good to see you too. 

 

It's not really about yu,rather those new to the site..

Understand there's two tribs though, one of satan and one of God.

Always good to talk about the Word,the status of your soul depends on it..

Glad 2 see yu still around as well 

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4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

It's not really about yu,rather those new to the site..

So you're saying it's ok for me to poke fun at you all over again?

 

 

 

No I'm kidding..........but actually I will if you try any hanky panky with me.

 

4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Understand there's two tribs though, one of satan and one of God.

 

Please explain.

 

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On 5/13/2003 at 8:37 AM, George said:

Hello brothers and sisters,

 

Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the pre-trib rapture theological position.

 

Why do you believe in a pre trib rapture?

 

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

 

George

Hi, Thank you for the thread.

To answer: I believe in a soon coming pre-triulation rapture because; I started as an atheist, then born again as an adult into the fold of Jesus without much knowledge of things of God and especially anything of the Bible. I found within a Criswell Study Bible  a list of thesis' on interpretation which include four theories on rapture. To borrow from the synopsis on page 1477. "the futuristic perspective is in perfect harmony with the message of the entire Bible. Far fewer interpretive enigmas are engendered with this approach". I have come to the point that I find that to be true.

Plus early on I had the privilege and pleasure of exposure to  Charles Larkin's drawings, found in his works  at pages 127 through about 139 of Dispensational Truth the pictorial reveal of the word of God. Those drawings made  reading the Bible with some greater understanding  of sequence of happenings past present and future a whole lot easier for me.

 I have tried to  embrace pre wrath, mid wrath , even Amillennialism and a few other possibilities, but find the hope that  is certain is best found in  pre-tribulation rapture of the saints in Christ Jesus, the lifting of Christ's church. It compares  in similarity  with Daniel's seventh week and the book of Daniel, making a harmony of Revelation and Daniel.

I shall not make an argument of it. It is just how I have come to my own understanding and my own confidence in the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture of the saints in Christ Jesus, the snatching up of His saints so that the time of reconciliation of  the nation Israel may unfold to God's great Glory, and so that many more may be saved.

 

Edited by Neighbor
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11 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

A post millennial rapture?! Boy you are seriously lost when it comes to the rapture.

How do you get a rapture at the end of the millennium when Christ has already been on earth the last 1000 years? In the rapture, Christ comes down from heaven, not go up to heaven.

So does Christ go back up to heaven after the millennium and suddenly come back down to earth?

 

So you can dismiss the scripture and make up your own truth?

Do you not know that Jesus is now with us?  Revelation 1: 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.  Jesus is the one who promised to be with us even unto the end of the age.  He is not absent now.  His role will change as He reigns in the thousand years and then as judge at the end of the thousand years.

Jesus will raise up believers at the last day which is stated to be at the end of the thousand years, this is when the rapture occurs and the books are opened.

The purpose of the rapture is to bring those who are alive and remain into the new realm which they could not enter without being changed.  They will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye in order to enter the new heaven and the new earth.  Your position seems to be all about avoiding Gods wrath.  Give Him some credit.  God can and does distinguish His people at the time of wrath.  He can gather out the tares and burn them up while leaving the wheat untouched.  His ways are not your ways and His thoughts are not your thoughts.

 

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47 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

So you can dismiss the scripture and make up your own truth?

Do you not know that Jesus is now with us?  Revelation 1: 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.  Jesus is the one who promised to be with us even unto the end of the age.  He is not absent now.  His role will change as He reigns in the thousand years and then as judge at the end of the thousand years.

Jesus will raise up believers at the last day which is stated to be at the end of the thousand years, this is when the rapture occurs and the books are opened.

The purpose of the rapture is to bring those who are alive and remain into the new realm which they could not enter without being changed.  They will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye in order to enter the new heaven and the new earth.  Your position seems to be all about avoiding Gods wrath.  Give Him some credit.  God can and does distinguish His people at the time of wrath.  He can gather out the tares and burn them up while leaving the wheat untouched.  His ways are not your ways and His thoughts are not your thoughts.

 

If what you say is true, then Scripture is Wrong.  Scripture says we as the Bride will reign with Him (2 Tim 2:12).  Those souls under the altar (those beheaded) will reign with Christ for a 1000 years (Rev 20:4)  But, yes the wheat and tares process takes place after the Mill.  This is where the tares are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.  The Bema seat of Christ is where rewards are given to Believers (Bride): This happens before the Mill.

There are a resurrection for the living (called the first) and there is a resurrection for the dead (called the second).  All are not resurrected at the same time.  The dead in Christ and those of us who remain are Harpozo (Raptured first to go into the Fathers House per (John 14:1-4). This is a resurrection (first).  Those who make it out of the Mill, those who do not follow Satan will also be resurrected (first). And for Israel, Dan 12:13 -  go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of those days you will rise to receive your allotted Inheritance, a resurrection (first) happening at the onset of the Mill.

The Second Resurrection happens after the Mill, when the Books are opened.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

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9 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

If what you say is true, then Scripture is Wrong.  Scripture says we as the Bride will reign with Him (2 Tim 2:12).  Those souls under the altar (those beheaded) will reign with Christ for a 1000 years (Rev 20:4)  But, yes the wheat and tares process takes place after the Mill.  This is where the tares are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.  The Bema seat of Christ is where rewards are given to Believers (Bride): This happens before the Mill.

Hi Montana Marv

I would say that the scripture is not wrong.  People perceive things that are not true then get upset when other views are presented.  Look at 2 Timothy 2:12 that does not say the bride of Christ will reign with Him as I read it those who endure will reign.  

11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
    we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
    we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,
    he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
    he remains faithful,
    for he cannot disown himself.

Could you give a reference for the Bema Seat happening before the Mill?

9 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

There are a resurrection for the living (called the first) and there is a resurrection for the dead (called the second). 

 

Please check the text regarding the resurrections.  The first resurrection is limited to those who are faithful unto death.  Being dead they are raised to reign they do not go up and there is not a rapture here.  The text says the rest of the dead which is everyone that is not in the first resurrection.

Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

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