Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[seeking the lost]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:10 PM, Montana Marv said:

The only ones being judged out of the Books are the Unjust.  Christ does not see their names written in the Book of Life, so the Unjust are judged out of what is written in these books.

There are waves for the Just to enter into the First Resurrection (Resurrection of the Just).  The Bride goes first before the onset of the Final Week.  The tribulation (70th Week) saints go into the First Resurrection during the 70th Week. Those Just of Israel who have died goes into the First Resurrection at the end of the Final Week to be with those of Israel who make it out of the 70th Week and those who come out alive are part of the following group .  Then all other Just Saints go into the First Resurrection Post Mill.

This is a common teaching but I do not see it recorded in that way.  Jesus spoke of the day of the resurrection in John 5.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Notice that this happens on the same day at the same time.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

This is a common teaching but I do not see it recorded in that way.  Jesus spoke of the day of the resurrection in John 5.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Notice that this happens on the same day at the same time.

What about those not in the grave. All those born during the Mill.

The thing is, that the dead in Christ, those indwelt by the H.S. rise first. Then we who are alive, not in the grave, rise to meet Him in the air. Pre asension no one indwelt by the H.S. During the Mill those living are not indwelt by the H.S.

You need to understand the audience.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[seeking the lost]

47 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

What about those not in the grave. All those born during the Mill.

The thing is, that the dead in Christ, those indwelt by the H.S. rise first. Then we who are alive, not in the grave, rise to meet Him in the air. Pre asension no one indwelt by the H.S. During the Mill those living are not indwelt by the H.S.

You need to understand the audience.

Greetings Montana Marv,

The audience yes and the time.  Jesus told of the day when those in the grave would hear His voice and be raised out of the grave  The text in John 5:24-29 clearly identifies both righteous and unrighteous being raised at the same time.  One to life and the other to death.  Those who have done good to everlasting life.  Those that have done evil will be raised to damnation.  It is after this resurrection and not before that those who are still alive at the end of the mill. will be caught up with the believers who have heard the voice and are raised to life.  The day that Jesus spoke of was the last day.  This is that day.  The day that the dead are raised both righteous and unrighteous.  Then those alive at the end of the thousand years are caught up with the righteous dead.  And so shall we ever be with the LORD.

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Greetings Montana Marv,

The audience yes and the time.  Jesus told of the day when those in the grave would hear His voice and be raised out of the grave  The text in John 5:24-29 clearly identifies both righteous and unrighteous being raised at the same time.  One to life and the other to death.  Those who have done good to everlasting life.  Those that have done evil will be raised to damnation.  It is after this resurrection and not before that those who are still alive at the end of the mill. will be caught up with the believers who have heard the voice and are raised to life.  The day that Jesus spoke of was the last day.  This is that day.  The day that the dead are raised both righteous and unrighteous.  Then those alive at the end of the thousand years are caught up with the righteous dead.  And so shall we ever be with the LORD.

Not so fast

Daniel 12; this is referring to Daniel's people.  Especially look at 9-13 - Go your way Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.  Many will be purified (see Zech 13:8,9), made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.  From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.  As for you, go your way till the end.  You will rest and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance. A close look here shows beginning Mid Week the A/D is set up.

Once the A/D is set up there are and extra 30 day and 45 day period following the 1,260  (3 1/2 year) days.  It is at the end of these days that Daniel and his people will rise to receive their inheritance.  Abraham was promised a people (Israel), a blessing who is (Jesus Christ the King), and a Land (the area of Canaan) - Gen 17:8.Zech 13:8-9 - In the whole land, declares the Lord; two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it.  This third I will bring into the fire, I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.  They will call on my name and I will answer them;  I will say, They are my people, and they will say the Lord is our God.  This cleansing process is the last 3 1/2 years or the time of Jacobs trouble.

So what was promised to Daniel nullifies your position.  The end of days is just before the beginning of the Mill. Just from Israel (Daniels people) will rise.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Psalms37:4]

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

pre        

Hi Yowm,

Good to see a brother and a fellow neighbor.

[n2thelight]

14 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

What about those not in the grave. All those born during the Mill.

The thing is, that the dead in Christ, those indwelt by the H.S. rise first. Then we who are alive, not in the grave, rise to meet Him in the air. Pre asension no one indwelt by the H.S. During the Mill those living are not indwelt by the H.S.

You need to understand the audience.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Nobody will be born during the millennium as the age of the flesh will be over.

 

[Psalms37:4]

17 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Rapture must be preceded by this resurrection.

Yes but not by 3000 years as you think.

 

Quote

Jesus death and resurrection ushered in the last days but it is not the last day.

Jesus told His disciples on the Mount of Olives the last days are the final days leading up to His return and will be ushered in by the fig tree. I don't think Jesus refers to Himself as the fig tree.

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Nobody will be born during the millennium as the age of the flesh will be over.

Not so: 

Zech 14:16 - Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  Isa 11:8 - The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, the young child put his hand into the vipers nest..  They will neither harm or destroy on all my holy mountain. Jer 23:3,4 - I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number.  I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing, declares the Lord.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[seeking the lost]

23 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

So what was promised to Daniel nullifies your position.  The end of days is just before the beginning of the Mill. Just from Israel (Daniels people) will rise.

Greetings Montana Marv

I do not understand how the Bible can nullify the Bible.  My position is that the rapture happens after the resurrection as the Word of God states clearly.  I would not have you to be ignorant concerning those who are asleep, we will not precede them.  The dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.  Do you not know this?

My position is that the resurrection happens as John tells us in Revelation 20 and Jesus told us about in John 5 both place it at the last day.  The last day is at the end of the thousand Years.

John 5: 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."  (both righteous and unrighteous are raise at the same time according to Jesus)

John 6: 35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

The dead will be raised at the last day.  John says that is at the end of the thousand years.

Revelation 20: ⁴ I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They^[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ⁵ (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The end of the thousand years is the time when the sea gives up the dead, this is a get up out of the grave resurrection. Rapture .

[seeking the lost]

18 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Yes but not by 3000 years as you think.

 

Jesus told His disciples on the Mount of Olives the last days are the final days leading up to His return and will be ushered in by the fig tree. I don't think Jesus refers to Himself as the fig tree.

 

 

 

Greetings PS 37:4

The time of the resurrection is at the end of the thousand years that is the last day that Jesus spoke about in John 6.

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Do not add confusion of the last days and the last day.  Rapture happens as the dead in Christ are raised up at the last day at the end of the thousand years.  Graves and books are opened at this time and not before.