Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:27 PM, inchrist said:

I'm not gonna lie, this gave me the giggles

This link here gives you a wonderful access to the babylonian Talmud ( One of the authoritative source for Judaism)

http://www.come-and-hear.com/tcontents.html

Now I'm just going to pick a section for you

and here we find R. Joseph again in the Babylonian Talmud http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_57.html

we find with R. Joseph also the following,  R. Nahman b. Isaac, R. Huna, R. Shesheth, R. Aha b. Jacob, R. Papa, R. Eleazar, R. Jonathan b. Saul

The R ..... stand for Rabbi....of cause the guy is Jewish

Now back to Rabbi Joseph commentary of Isaiah 26:20

Sanhedrin 105b - http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_105.html

basically - you simply out your depth.

I don't know why you're laughing. If anyone that should be laughing it be all of us laughing at you when you look at the bottom of the link to see who created it.

http://www.anesi.com/q0029.htm

The person who made that website is Chuck Anesi, not R. Joseph. Even the link is www.anesi.com, not www.RJoseph.com

 

 

 

On 10/9/2017 at 12:27 PM, inchrist said:

No I dont have answers for post trib, because im no post trib

Do you have no idea what post trib means? It means AFTER THE TRIBULATION!

If you're promoting this scripture as the rapture, than you're promoting a post trib rapture too.

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What part of "after the tribulation" do you not understand? You don't answer for post trib because truth is you can't prove a post trib rapture exist.

 

 

 

On 10/9/2017 at 12:27 PM, inchrist said:

Question is flawed as its a replacement theology, The text was given to the jews, be a peach and go back to whereever you copy your pre trib nonsense from and explain to me how the jews have no right to their verse..... 

The question is not flawed. Anything taken from the bible that doesn't line up with your thinking is considered replacement theology. 

In the rapture, where do people go, to heaven (where God dwells) or to Jerusalem (on earth)? You seem to think it's the latter. I tell you it's heaven and you accuse me of replacement theology.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:43 PM, inchrist said:

You said there was no translation, I gave you one, now its not good enough, forever changing the goal post, now you wish to argue that world and globe doesnt mean the same thing,

Once again, you're not telling the truth.

This is what you wrote. I repeated numerous times show me the translation with the word "globe" in it.

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

 

This is the translation you gave below. It doesn't have the word "globe" in it. 

On 10/8/2017 at 2:56 AM, inchrist said:

Richard Francis Weymouth NT is free on line http://www.biblestudytools.com/wnt/

31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet-blast, and they will bring together His own People to Him from north, south, east and west--from one extremity of the world to the other.

 

Here's where you're caught lying again.

The first quote is on Mark 13:27.

The second quote is from the Richard Francis Weymouth NT translation is on Matthew 24:31. Not Mark 13:27.

And here you twist the argument adding this "now you wish to argue that world and globe doesnt mean the same thing," when Mark 13:27 indicates a gathering from both heaven and earth. Two different locations.

Mark 13:27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁷ And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Matthew 24:31 speaks of a gathering only from heaven. One single location. 

You used the Weymouth NT translation on Matthew 24:31, which only indicates one single location citing that as Mark 13:27.

Mark 13:27 shows a gathering from two locations: heaven and earth.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Also this. If Matthew's intention was to tell the readers the angels will gather the elects from earth, Matthew would of used the word earth too just as Mark.

 

Quote

Even though right from the beginning I explained to you this is an interpretation? 

It's not an interpretation, it's fabrication as many of your teachings are not consistent but contrary to the bible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Abdicate said:

He's declaring the end from the beginning, so I went to the beginning and if you start in Genesis 8 and go to Genesis 1 writing the theme of each chapter, you'll find an interesting pattern.

• Genesis 8 - Outpouring of the Holy Spirit (dove) - Last Days pour out the Holy Spirit
• Genesis 7 - Shaking of the Earth - Earthquakes in divers places
• Genesis 6 - Signs of the Days of Noah - violence and evil therefore the love of man grows cold
• Genesis 5 - Rapture of Enoch - Rapture of the church
• Genesis 4 - Marking of Cain - Marking of God's 144,000 and Mark of the Beast for the rest
• Genesis 3 - Satan won over man 3:15 - Satan loses over a Man, Rev 20:2
• Genesis 2 - Perfect Paradise - Rev 22 Perfect Paradise
• Genesis 1 -
• Time Begins - Time Ends;
• God walked with man - God walks with man;
• Tree of Life - Tree of Life heals the nations;
• Adam and Eve - Jesus and His Bride;
• No sickness or death - No more sickness or death;

First two chapters of the word of God are perfect. Alef; Alpha

Last two chapters of the word of God are perfect. Tav; Omega

 

Genesis - Nimrod one world government; tower of Babel

Revelation - Antichrist one world government; mystery Babylon; Babylon is destroyed

That is quite brilliant! Thanks. End from Beginning - be hard for me to look back from the end and not over-interfere.

I guess there are aspects of God that are so alien to us; we so often 'anthropomorphize' the Lord God.
(Now this kinda irritates me; like putting the Lord's image on your dashboard with a nodding head or waving arm.)

God [is] not a man — and lieth, And a son of man — and repenteth!
Hath He said — and doth He not do [it]? And spoken — and doth He not confirm it?

God can actually FORGET our sins. How does he do this? He sets Himself limits so as to give us freedom. WOW.
His restraint is so COMPLETELY foreign to us mortals. Amazing! Humbling!

It is God that should have us little tiny people on His dash...

[Justin Adams]

Just read in THE TIMES of Tim Peake's trip to the space station. The first UK astronaut!

Tim is an Englishman and has some wonderful descriptions. Maybe look it up online. [http://theweek.com/speedreads/631136/british-astronaut-space-marathoner-tim-peake-lands-earth-after-historic-space-station-trip]

Also an original Aramaic to English quote below:

 27"Then he will send his Angels and gather his elect ones from the four winds and the bottom of the earth* even unto the top of Heaven." (Mark 13)

The Aramaic is very interesting. It is most likely the NT was first written thus, and then translated into Hebrew, a very similar tongue and then to Greek/Latin that has less allegory and less poetic sense.

 

[Justin Adams]

2 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

The question is not flawed. Anything taken from the bible that doesn't line up with your thinking is considered replacement theology. 

In the rapture, where do people go, to heaven (where God dwells) or to Jerusalem (on earth)? You seem to think it's the latter. I tell you it's heaven and you accuse me of replacement theology.

I do not think it is quite as simple as that. There are passages that say some are 'taken captive'. That hints at tares being separated from pure grain. As in the days of Noah, they were 'carried away captive'.

Also, there is NO definitive answer for the time-line: maybe some events happen simultaneously, maybe consecutively.

There is also a reference to the 'refuge cities' as well. Flee to the mountains perhaps? Check out those possibilities.

Many things can be inferred from the collection of scripts called the bible. They do not necessarily agree on all the details because they record conversations made at different times to different people - then discussed - then later recorded most likely in Aramaic. This is a poetic language and Yeshua was likened unto David, alluding to the fact Yeshua has most likely a very poetic and humorous talent. Check that out too. If you do not read the words with THE WORD in your heart it may not come alive to you and might even becomes just another point/counter-point fruitless argument.

Before you rip and tear each other apart, maybe take a step back. A brilliant teacher once said that these events, and The Revelations are like an account recorded on the surface of an orange. The orange is then carefully peeled and placed on a flat surface. That is why it is a very great challenge to see this all as a homogeneous complete whole.

[Psalms37:4]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

However can you now prove that Chuck Anesi actually wrote the passage?

Moses wrote the first 5 books of the bible from Genesis to Deuteronomy, not Chuck Anesi. And Isaiah wrote the book of.....well Isaiah, not Chuck Anesi.

Why don't you prove Chuck Anesi wrote those passages.

 

 

Quote

If you bothered to look further down it actually states -- Passage prepared by Zwi Werblowsky, a rabbinical scholar, 
 

From the Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Kamma
R. Joseph learnt: What is the meaning of the verse, And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning?24  Once permission has been granted to the Destroyer, he does not distinguish between righteous and wicked. Moreover, he even begins with the righteous at the very outset, as it says:25  And I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.26 
https://halakhah.com/babakamma/babakamma_60.html
 

 And how shall I execrate, whom the Lord hath not execrated?10  This teaches us that He was not angry all these days. And how long does His anger last? One moment. And how long is one moment? R. Abin (some say R. Abina) says: As long as it takes to say Rega'.11  And how do you know that He is angry one moment? For it is said: For His anger is but for a moment [rega'], His favor is for a lifetime.12  Or if you prefer you may infer it from the following verse: Hide thyself for a little moment until the indignation be overpast.
https://halakhah.com/berakoth/berakoth_7.html
 

Further with Jewish thought

The following is from the book The Talmud: A selection

The following is from the book Nine Talmudic readings

 

Who are you arguing with on this topic? Certainly not with me because I haven't commented on it and it has nothing related to anything I've said.

Oh I get it, you need to post about something - anything - to win an argument. Well here's a brownie point and a pat on you the head for winning an argument against yourself.

 

Quote

No where in Jewish thought is the idea of being raptured to go hide in mansions in Heaven.

You mean the prophet Isaiah is not be Jewish?

Isaiah 26:20

New International Version
Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by.

New Living Translation
Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD's anger has passed.

English Standard Version
Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by.

New American Standard Bible 
Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course.

King James Bible
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Go, my people, enter your rooms and close your doors behind you. Hide for a little while until the wrath has passed. 

International Standard Version
Come, my people, enter your rooms and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by.

NET Bible
Go, my people! Enter your inner rooms! Close your doors behind you! Hide for a little while, until his angry judgment is over! 

New Heart English Bible
Come, my people, enter into your chambers, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a little moment, until the indignation is past.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
My people, go to your rooms, and shut the doors behind you. Hide for a little while until his fury has ended.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, And shut thy doors about thee; Hide thyself for a little moment, Until the indignation be overpast.

New American Standard 1977 
Come, my people, enter into your rooms, 
            And close your doors behind you; 
            Hide for a little while, 
            Until indignation runs its course.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself, as it were, for a little moment until the indignation is overpast.

King James 2000 Bible
Come, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation is past.

American King James Version
Come, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be over.

American Standard Version
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Go, my people, enter into thy chambers, shut thy doors upon thee, hide thyself a little for a moment, until the indignation pass away. 

Darby Bible Translation
Come, my people, enter into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee; hide thyself just for a little moment, until the indignation be past.

English Revised Version
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Webster's Bible Translation
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee; hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation shall be overpast.

World English Bible
Come, my people, enter into your rooms, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a little moment, until the indignation is past.

Young's Literal Translation
Come, My people, enter into thy inner chambers, And shut thy doors behind thee, Hide thyself shortly a moment till the indignation pass over.

 

You mean the Apostle John is not Jewish?

John 14:2

New International Version
My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

New Living Translation
There is more than enough room in my Father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?

English Standard Version
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

Berean Study Bible
In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

Berean Literal Bible
In My Father's house there are many mansions. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

New American Standard Bible 
"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

King James Bible
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you. 

International Standard Version
There are many rooms in my Father's house. If there weren't, I wouldn't have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you, would I? 

NET Bible
There are many dwelling places in my Father's house. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going away to make ready a place for you.

New Heart English Bible
In my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it weren't so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“There are many lodgings in my Father's house, and if not, I would have told you, because I go to prepare a place for you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
My Father's house has many rooms. If that were not true, would I have told you that I'm going to prepare a place for you?

New American Standard 1977 
“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Jubilee Bible 2000
In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

King James 2000 Bible
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

American King James Version
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

American Standard Version
In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. 

Darby Bible Translation
In my Father's house there are many abodes; were it not so, I had told you: for I go to prepare you a place;

English Revised Version
In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Webster's Bible Translation
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Weymouth New Testament
In my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you; for I am going to make ready a place for you.

World English Bible
In my Father's house are many homes. If it weren't so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you.

Young's Literal Translation
in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;

 

You mean the Apostle Paul is not Jewish?

2 Corinthians 5:1

New International Version
For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

New Living Translation
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.

English Standard Version
For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Berean Study Bible
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

Berean Literal Bible
For we know that if the tent of our earthly house should be destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

New American Standard Bible 
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

King James Bible
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we know that if our temporary, earthly dwelling is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal dwelling in the heavens, not made with hands.

International Standard Version
We know that if the earthly tent we live in is torn down, we have a building in heaven that comes from God, an eternal house not built by human hands. 

NET Bible
For we know that if our earthly house, the tent we live in, is dismantled, we have a building from God, a house not built by human hands, that is eternal in the heavens.

New Heart English Bible
For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we know that surely this our bodily house that is in The Earth will be destroyed; but there is a building for us that is from God, a house which is not by the work of hands, in Heaven for eternity.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We know that if the life we live here on earth is ever taken down like a tent, we still have a building from God. It is an eternal house in heaven that isn't made by human hands.

New American Standard 1977 
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For we know that if the earthly house of this our habitation were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

King James 2000 Bible
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

American King James Version
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

American Standard Version
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For we know, if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved, that we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven. 

Darby Bible Translation
For we know that if our earthly tabernacle house be destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

English Revised Version
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

Webster's Bible Translation
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Weymouth New Testament
For we know that if this poor tent, our earthly house, is taken down, we have in Heaven a building which God has provided, a house not built by human hands, but eternal.

World English Bible
For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

Young's Literal Translation
For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands -- age-during -- in the heavens,

 

I think you just got debunked by your favorite translation: Weymouth New Testament.

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Technically Post trib’s should be called post wraths, 
Im pre bowl, technically I would be post trib and prewrath, because the bowls is the wrath of God
Prewraths are also technically  post trib and pre wrath of the bowls.

No! Technically the wraths are a part of the tribulation so post trib is correct. 

No! You're lost! Not possible to be post trib and pre wrath together. The bowls and the trumpets are ALL the wrath of God. His angels are the ones who sounds all 7 trumpets and pours out all 7 bowls.  The trumpets are God's judgments and the bowls are God's execution. You need to learn what they are and not adhere to man made doctrines.

And No! Pre wrath is not technically post trib nor pre wrath of the bowls. That's just some ignorant man made doctrine created to mean the beginning of the bowl judgment but it's incorrect. And a bunch of loonies having no idea of on the book of Revelation just jumped on the bandwagon because it sounds good. God's wrath is the entire 7 years. The angels executing the trumpets and bowls are from God doing God's deeds.

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

 I don’t subscribe to your placement of the tribulation. Wrap your head round that.

Of course. The truth is not in you. If it were so, you would jump at the opportunity to partake in the Pre-Trib rapture.

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

The Great tribulation is the 5th seal which is pre cosmic shaking 6th seal up to the 7th trumpet, only after the cosmic event does Christ come. That places the timing of Matthew 24:31 at the 7th trumpet. Time to judge the dead

No! The Seals are ALL pretrib events. The next prophetic event in Revelation is the 6th Seal, the rapture of the Church. 

We are currently in the 5th Seal, the time of the martyrs. 

Christian persecution reached record high in 2015, report says

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/17/world/christian-persecution-2015/index.html

Christian Persecution in India Hits Record High in First Half of 2017

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-india-hits-record-high-2017-195252/

Christian Persecution Continues to Rise Worldwide

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-continues-to-rise-worldwide-180668/

 

PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS SUFFER 'WORST YEAR YET,' MOSTLY UNDER ISLAM

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266265/persecuted-christians-suffer-worst-year-yet-mostly-raymond-ibrahim

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Prewraths also place the great tribulation from the 5th seal but only stop at the 6th seal for cosmic events

Oh brother!

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

However this is your flaw against post tribs.

You have Christ coming at Rev 19 for his second coming with Matthew 24:31, your flaw is actually really simple, see You have to admit Christ comes after the tribulation for the second coming. In order to not contradict yourself, you have to create 2 tribulations,

1 tribulation ( first 3.5 yrs)
2nd tribulation ( second 3.5 yrs you call great tribulation)

No such thing as two 3.5 year tribulations. It's one 7 year tribulation. 

It's called Daniel's 70th week, not 1st Daniel's 3 1/2 and 2nd Daniel's 3 1/2 weeks.

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Problem with your accusations against your traditional Post Tribs, you obviously never realized Post tribs distinguish between tribulation and Wrath of God, which nullifies your claim  that Christ comes in the “tribulation” trying to catch out the post tribs.

Ill take option C: Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name, 
thy kingdom come, 

The Lord's Prayer is not about the rapture, the tribulation or the end times. But when you fast, do not sound the alarm like the hypocrites.

 

Matthew 6:8-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. ⁹ In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
¹⁰ Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
¹¹ Give us this day our daily bread.
¹² And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
¹³ And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

¹⁴ “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. ¹⁵ But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

¹⁶ “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

You can repeat as much as you want, doesn’t change how you have taking what I've stated out of context,

 Since mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 is to be completely in sync and in harmony, the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:31 is as follows:

Mark 13:27 - he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds (Earth and SKY = Global Earth)

Matthew 24:31 - and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (Earth and SKY = GLOBAL Earth)

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

Matthew 24:31 - He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from around the globe from one end to the other

I said Interpretation and I said in short this is what they are telling us., as ive consistently maintain from around the globe from one end to the other is the interpretation of Matthew and Mark. Because thats the meaning. 

I came to that meaning by refuting your opinion into scripture:

Your Opinion

Refuted with scripture

N-GMP on your right stands for 

Part of Speech: Noun

Case: Genitive
Gender: Masculine
Number: Plural

Pssst! It still said "heaven (as the abode of God)"

I rest my case!

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

ok.....

if it makes you feel better here you go

Matthew 24:31 - He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from around the world from one end to the other

Because that made such a globe of difference, I mean world of difference.

Wrong verse......as always. Quote Mark 13:27.

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/11/2017 at 4:04 AM, Justin Adams said:

I do not think it is quite as simple as that. There are passages that say some are 'taken captive'. That hints at tares being separated from pure grain. As in the days of Noah, they were 'carried away captive'.

Matthew 24:36-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁶ “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. ³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. ³⁸ For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, ³⁹ and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Matthew 24:36-39 is a description of Christ coming for the church during a time when people on earth are conducting normal daily routine activities like celebrating, partying and marriage. The Aramaic translation of that scripture is grossly in error. No other translation uses the word captive in that verse to describe the rapture. 

A captive is a described as someone taken as a prisoner. Christ isn't coming to imprison anyone, particularly His bride. The bible describes the rapture as the "Blessed Hope" Titus 2:13 and exhorts all to pray always (Luke 21:36) and be watchful (Luke 21:36, Mark 13:37) that he be worthy to partake in the rapture. Christians are not encouraged to watch and pray to become prisoners during the tribulation.

 

On 10/11/2017 at 4:04 AM, Justin Adams said:

If you do not read the words with THE WORD in your heart it may not come alive to you and might even becomes just another point/counter-point fruitless argument.

Before you rip and tear each other apart, maybe take a step back. A brilliant teacher once said that these events, and The Revelations are like an account recorded on the surface of an orange. The orange is then carefully peeled and placed on a flat surface. That is why it is a very great challenge to see this all as a homogeneous complete whole.

You're judging the book by it's cover having no idea what I'm doing. If you did and is obedience to scripture with a faithful heart, you would be doing what I'm doing regardless of persecution. The argument started from page 58, it be a good idea to go back and read everything and not just the last page.

Also this, don't be dogmatic about speculation or promote what's clearly an error. There are people on this forum that could be new to Christianity and bible prophecy and can easily become lead astray believing the Aramaic version of Matthew 24:36-39. God holds people responsible for what they promote: good or bad.

Psalm 141:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ But my eyes are upon You, O GOD the Lord;
In You I take refuge;
Do not leave my soul destitute.
⁹ Keep me from the snares they have laid for me,
And from the traps of the workers of iniquity.
¹⁰ Let the wicked fall into their own nets,
While I escape safely.

Psalm 35:8 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ Let destruction come upon him unexpectedly,
And let his net that he has hidden catch himself;
Into that very destruction let him fall.

Psalm 7:15-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ He made a pit and dug it out,
And has fallen into the ditchwhich he made.
¹⁶ His trouble shall return upon his own head,
And his violent dealing shall come down on his own crown.

Be observant. You'll notice the many who promote something other than the Pre-Trib rapture are also teaching things contrary to the bible and believe they must go through the tribulation. God has removed His protection from their eyes and allowed the enemy to make them think they must endure the wrath. Best to proclaim what is true, consistent with the bible.

Revelation 22:18-19 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁸ For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; ¹⁹ and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

8 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Why on earth would I want to prove. Chuck wrote the passgad when I showed you he didnt? 

Well duh!!! Than why would you want me to prove Chuck Anesi wrote those passages when all I said was the creator of the website you posted is Chuck Anesi, not R.Joseph.

ROFL!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Also this, don't be dogmatic about speculation or promote what's clearly an error. There are people on this forum that could be new to Christianity and bible prophecy and can easily become lead astray believing the Aramaic version of Matthew 24:36-39. God holds people responsible for what they promote: good or bad.

I agree with you here, we do have to be aware of those reading this and their interest in the truth. Also, how we treat each other is important. To tell me something is 'clearly in error' and suggesting I would intend to 'lead astray' someone is a little harsh.  I am putting forth a point that may not agree with yours. However, there are two passages that suggest this 'carrying away captive' is something to consider.
Maybe you can find them both, then the imagined 'led astray' people can see for themselves.

Sadly you assume people are stupid when they read this and other Christian apologetics. I will put it to you that a great many atheists are such because of dogmatic and poorly informed Christians trying to make them look stupid.
Because people do no believe what we believe, or have yet to understand what we do, does not make them stupid or unable to find truth. Those are the ones that THE LIGHT of MEN, the WORD came to save. New Christians are most probably more likely to recognize TRUTH than older 'experienced' ones. There is probably nothing worse than a Christian that cannot learn.

Steve Gray of the Smithton outpouring traveled all over, and was host to numerous conferences. He said he would rather address a group of prostitutes than a group of pastors.
He said the former were far more open to truth than the latter. He was serious!

Aramaic is the language of Yeshua's day and most of the NT original was in Aramaic. Greek is not nearly as poetic a language. That the Aramaic was translated into Hebrew (a very similar language) and Latin and Greek is quite clear from many scholar's standpoints. Josephus, a Jew, used Aramaic and any reference to 'our tongue' or the 'language of the Hebrews' means Aramaic.