Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

The Jewish people are from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin + some Levites.

It is impossible that the other 10 tribes have rejoined yet, per Ezekiel 37. The Jews are not as many as the sands of the sea, or have fulfilled the blessings of Jacob and Moses.  Jesus came for the lost tribes of Israel, Matthew 15:24  and His mission succeeded as they, the Western nations have become Christian. Sadly we have fallen back, so lets hope Jesus Returns soon!

Correction without scriptural proof, is worthless. In fact your unpleasant way of 'correction' counts against you. 

Keras

Here is the Scripture you miss quoted:  Matt 15:24 - I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.  You inserted tribes for sheep.  Shows how you slant Scripture, slight of hand. It sounds good, but is deceitful.

The Jewish people are all from Jacob (Israel), 12 sons.  Jer 3:18 - In those days the house of Judah will join the house of Israel.  The divided kingdoms will be joined.

The Jews do not have to fulfill the blessings of Jacob and Moses.  The Covenant came from God, He will bring them together on His timing.  God must fulfill His promise to them.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Keras]

57 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Keras

Here is the Scripture you miss quoted:  Matt 15:24 - I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.  You inserted tribes for sheep.  Shows how you slant Scripture, slight of hand. It sounds good, but is deceitful.

The Jewish people are all from Jacob (Israel), 12 sons.  Jer 3:18 - In those days the house of Judah will join the house of Israel.  The divided kingdoms will be joined.

The Jews do not have to fulfill the blessings of Jacob and Moses.  The Covenant came from God, He will bring them together on His timing.  God must fulfill His promise to them.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I didn't put in 'tribes' as a italicized Bible quote. I put 'tribes' in because that clarifies how at that time who Jesus came to save, were. James 1:1 and 1 Peter 1:1, knew who Jesus meant and where they were. Anyway we Christians ARE the 'sheep' of Jesus. John 10:1-27  If the Jews are His sheep, Jesus failed in His mission. 

In the Bible there are 160 instances of the House of Judah and the House of Israel quoted separately.  This means that we should differentiate between them as well. That they have not yet rejoined is quite apparent from their numbers and from the Blessings promised in Ezekiel 37 and elsewhere, when they do. 

Please tell us why you think God will redeem all the current inhabitants of Israel? Where in the Bible does it say; I will forgive those who reject Jesus? 

[Guest shiloh357]

8 hours ago, Keras said:

The Jewish people are from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin + some Levites.

It is impossible that the other 10 tribes have rejoined yet, per Ezekiel 37. The Jews are not as many as the sands of the sea, or have fulfilled the blessings of Jacob and Moses.  Jesus came for the lost tribes of Israel, Matthew 15:24  and His mission succeeded as they, the Western nations have become Christian. Sadly we have fallen back, so lets hope Jesus Returns soon!

 

Yeah, that's the bold British Israelism, identity cult garbage.  

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Correction without scriptural proof, is worthless. In fact your unpleasant way of 'correction' counts against you. 

The person with the scriptural proof problem is you.  

Edited April 1, 2018 by shiloh357
Removed all the direct attacks. Let's stay on topic!

[Montana Marv]

10 hours ago, Keras said:

Please tell us why you think God will redeem all the current inhabitants of Israel? Where in the Bible does it say; I will forgive those who reject Jesus?

How long did you reject Jesus before Salvation came upon you?  Or were you born Saved.  Maybe sprinkled Baptism saved you.

Dan 9:24 - 70 Sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. Finish transgression, 2. put an end to sin, 3. atone for wickedness, 4, bring in everlasting righteousness, 5. seal up vision and prophecy, 6. anoint the Most Holy.

When all Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah, they will be saved.  Zech 8:7,8 - This is what the Lord Almighty says; I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.  I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.

Zech 12:10b -... They will look on me, the one who they have pierced, and they will mourn.....  Thus fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

When God made the Covenant with Abraham about possessing the Land in Gen 15:7-17 , Who walked between the sacrificed animals? Abraham fell asleep, God walked between the sacrificed animals.  So everything depends on God.  The Land Deal was between God and Abraham, not Abraham and God.

 Zech 13:8,9 - In the whole land, declares the Lord, two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver, test them like gold.  They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, They are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God.

This is the Salvation of the two sticks, Judah and Israel, North and Southern Kingdoms. The Davidic Kingdom is one again.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Keras]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

How long did you reject Jesus before Salvation came upon you?  Or were you born Saved.  Maybe sprinkled Baptism saved you.

Dan 9:24 - 70 Sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. Finish transgression, 2. put an end to sin, 3. atone for wickedness, 4, bring in everlasting righteousness, 5. seal up vision and prophecy, 6. anoint the Most Holy.

When all Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah, they will be saved.  Zech 8:7,8 - This is what the Lord Almighty says; I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.  I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.

Zech 12:10b -... They will look on me, the one who they have pierced, and they will mourn.....  Thus fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

When God made the Covenant with Abraham about possessing the Land in Gen 15:7-17 , Who walked between the sacrificed animals? Abraham fell asleep, God walked between the sacrificed animals.  So everything depends on God.  The Land Deal was between God and Abraham, not Abraham and God.

 Zech 13:8,9 - In the whole land, declares the Lord, two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver, test them like gold.  They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, They are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God.

This is the Salvation of the two sticks, Judah and Israel, North and Southern Kingdoms. The Davidic Kingdom is one again.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Again, a personal attack, followed by a very confused and irrational jumble of scripture. 

God made a Covenant with Abraham. Who are deemed to be the children of Abraham now?   Galatians 3:29

Zechariah 12 and 13 are specifically about the Jewish people, the House of Judah. Not many will survive. Romans 9:27                        If you read Ezekiel 37 slowly and carefully, it is clear that the great re-joining cannot have taken place yet.   Exactly where is the Davidic Kingdom?

[Guest shiloh357]

43 minutes ago, Keras said:

Thanks George for removing some of nasty comments, but as everyone can see, not all.  This member should be banned.

However, it all just shows that those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven, have no scriptural support for their belief and so have to resort to personal denigration and character assassination. It makes them look very silly. 

My aim and object is to present the truth of what God will do for His people. It has never been a removal, let alone to heaven. The only time that is prophesied is in Revelation 12:6-17, where the faithful Christians, those who kept the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to a place of safety on earth. 

Not one place does it say that Christians are protected.   Revelation 12 is about Jews, not Christians.  Christians are not protected at all per Revelation 7

Edited April 1, 2018 by shiloh357

[Keras]

13 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Not one place does it say that Christians are protected.   Revelation 12 is about Jews, not Christians.  Christians are not protected at all per Revelation 7

Your reading of scripture is hopelessly biased and confused. 

Revelation 12:17 is plainly about Christians as the rest of the children of the 'woman'. They must remain, but the faithful group will be kept safe for the 1260 days until Jesus Returns. Then they will be gathered by the angels to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31

I ask again: refute me with scripture, not opinions, if you can. 

[Guest shiloh357]

15 minutes ago, Keras said:

Your reading of scripture is hopelessly biased and confused. 

Revelation 12:17 is plainly about Christians as the rest of the children of the 'woman'. 

All of the imagery about the woman is Israel, not Christians.  There is no  way you can seriously make Revelation 12 about the Church.   

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They must remain, but the faithful group will be kept safe for the 1260 days until Jesus Returns.

The Bible doesn't say that.   Besides, the believers are martyred for Jesus and their number is beyond counting.  So they are NOT protected from the Antichrist.

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Then they will be gathered by the angels to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31

Matt. 24 is not about Christians.  It was is about Israel.

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I ask again: refute me with scripture, not opinions, if you can. 

I am just working from the Scriptures you provide, which you twist and contort to make Jews into Christians.   I don't make the Bible refute the Bible. The Scriptures you provide don't say what you claim they are saying.   You assume that Christians will be in the holy land and you mold the Bible around that assumption.   You are simply trying to mold the Bible around what you want to believe, and not allowing the Bible to shape your thinking.  

It's part of the British Israelism cult you subscribe to where "western nations" (meaning "white people") are the true Israelites.

Edited April 1, 2018 by shiloh357

[Keras]

50 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

All of the imagery about the woman is Israel, not Christians.  There is no  way you can seriously make Revelation 12 about the Church.

Now, you're looking very lacking in reading skills!

Revelation 12:17 .....the remnant of the 'woman's seed', those who keep the commandments of God and who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

53 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It's part of the British Israelism cult you subscribe to where "western nations" (meaning "white people") are the true Israelites.

The true Israelites of God are every faithful Christian person. Be they Jew or Gentile, black or white, male or female, etc. Period.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Keras said:

Now, you're looking very lacking in reading skills!

Revelation 12:17 .....the remnant of the 'woman's seed', those who keep the commandments of God and who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

No, the one lacking reading skills is you.   Revelation 12:1-6 is Israel, who gave birth to the Messiah.  The Church did not give birth to the Messiah.   The woman is Israel, not Christians and it is the woman, ethnic Israel that is being hidden in Judean Wilderness.

That is not the same as her offspring, Christians, who the AC goes to make war with and who will be martyred and killed.

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The true Israelites of God are every faithful Christian person. Be they Jew or Gentile, black or white, male or female, etc. Period.

Sorry, but you have already shown your colors and British Israel cult that you subscribe to.   The Bible only ever defines the "Israel of God" as Jewish believers.