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Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture


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Guest shiloh357
12 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Greetings Shiloh 357,

Many things were accomplished at the cross.  Among the things accomplished was the middle wall of partition was broken down.  This is the wall between Jew and Gentile and now He has created one new man. 

Ephesians 2: 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And none of that makes Gentiles into Jews.   In fact, if Gentile believers are now Jews, then why did the middle wall need to be broken down.  The idea was to make one new man, both Jew and Gentile.   But if God did was make Gentiles into Jews, then the "one new man" metaphor is pointless.

The beauty of God's plan is that uncircumcised Gentiles can enjoy the same blessings and they can do AS Gentiles.  They don't have to become something else. 

This obsession with some Gentile believers with wanting to be "Israel" or to be "Jews"  implies that it is a sin to be a Gentile.  They equate "Christian" with "Jew" and that is not an equivalency that is found in the Bible.  

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1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

And none of that makes Gentiles into Jews.   In fact, if Gentile believers are now Jews, then why did the middle wall need to be broken down.  The idea was to make one new man, both Jew and Gentile.   But if God did was make Gentiles into Jews, then the "one new man" metaphor is pointless.

The beauty of God's plan is that uncircumcised Gentiles can enjoy the same blessings and they can do AS Gentiles.  They don't have to become something else. 

This obsession with some Gentile believers with wanting to be "Israel" or to be "Jews"  implies that it is a sin to be a Gentile.  They equate "Christian" with "Jew" and that is not an equivalency that is found in the Bible.  

I agree that many have obsessions and that over emphases on anything can lead to error.  In Christ the distinction between Jew and Gentile is taken away.

 

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

Galations 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Abraham's seed?  What would that make us?

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12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And none of that makes Gentiles into Jews.   In fact, if Gentile believers are now Jews, then why did the middle wall need to be broken down.  The idea was to make one new man, both Jew and Gentile.   But if God did was make Gentiles into Jews, then the "one new man" metaphor is pointless.

It's not turning Gentiles into Jew's the way you saying it,the point is CHRIST!!!!!!!,if you don't believe in Him,it doesn't matter,irregardless of who you are.

They (Jew's)are cut off from their own tree,I'll leave at Jew's to keep it simple,but you don't even know who Israel is,but that's another topic.

If you don't believe in Christ,heck you may as well be a gentile,in the way you thinking.

In other words,ain't no two people,you either believe in Christ or you don't.and if you don't you are not His,period!!!!!!!

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On 6/26/2018 at 9:08 PM, Sojourner414 said:

Because this topic keeps going in the same tight little circles as it has been from the start, with consistent proof being ignored in favor of nonsense?

(just a guess) :D

You serious,consistent proof,you all(rapturist)must twist scripture to support that false doctrine

All are one in Christ,ignored

Christ Himself says He returns after the tribulation,He's talking to the Jew's

Please!!

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15 minutes ago, Davida said:

This thread should be called,  The Attacks against the PreTrib Rapture & those that believe it.  This is why we don't take this thread seriously and most have no interest in reading it let alone posting and being misrepresented like above. 

Quote below

Because this topic keeps going in the same tight little circles as it has been from the start, with consistent proof being ignored in favor of nonsense?

My question,what consistant proof?When called out,you all do just like you just did.

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There's no proof of a rapture in all of scripture,unless you twist it

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Why didn't Christ teach the rapture?

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18 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

Because the Church hadn't been revealed yet; it was still a secret in God.

Mark 13:23 "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

19 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

That said: until you, Steve Conley and Diaste stop twisting everything we say and misrepresenting the Pre-Trib Stance, we're done trying to reach out to you or even have a conversation with you on this. Every bit of evidence we present gets distorted by you folks and you have no issue with that; but let us disagree with you and it's practically sacrilege!!

I've yet to see one thread of this evidence,and how can something be twisted when ,(at least I do) quote what was said.Please show one example of what was twisted.

If providing scripture is twisting then twisting shall continue.

25 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

I'm fine with the answers I've provided so far, and will simply stand on those for others to read and consider. When you're ready to have a mature, intelligent discussion that doesn't consist of you three hurling accusations our way that would be more at home in a 3rd grade schoolyard, let us know. We'll be happy to talk then.

The answers you all give are not scriptural.Show me one accusation that I have hurled,think all Ive done was ask questions and provide scripture that totally refute this doctrine

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On 6/26/2018 at 5:49 PM, Montana Marv said:

Phil. 3:20 - But our citizenship is in Heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Abrahamic Covenant passed from Abraham to Isaac and then to Jacob (Israel)  The Covenant was a People, a Land, and a Blessing (Jesus Christ). Gen  17:8 - The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you, and I will be their God.  Interesting that the land is from the Euphrates to the Nile. (Gen 15:18)

In Christ

Montana Marv

This is true. All of it. For everyone that is in Christ.

Romans 2

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Galatians 6

15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

Romans 9

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 

Galatians 3

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

The conclusion is we are all blessed through Abraham and The Israel of God is not the same as the nation of Israel, and it's the Israel of God that receives the blessings of both the heavenly home and the possession of the land forever.

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18 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

  They equate "Christian" with "Jew" and that is not an equivalency that is found in the Bible.  

You're sort of correct. Christian and Jew are synonymous with the being in Christ, if they are in Christ, then they are the same. Which is all that matters. The Jew in Christ and the Gentile in Christ are equivalent in this regard, they are both in Christ.

Col 3, "Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all."

Then all are the same. No difference, no segregation. But this has to be understood from the new creation perspective. It's not about ethnic divisions. The Jew in Christ is no longer a Jew, they are in Christ. The Gentile in Christ is no longer a Gentile but is in Christ. They are both in Christ. If A=C and B=C then A=B. This is the ultimate understanding. Those in Christ is to whom scripture is directed from beginning to end.

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