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Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture


George

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18 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Was Saul's interaction with Christ on the road to Damascus a coming of Christ.

Was this the true second coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

"As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”" - Acts 9

Christ was not there in physical form, only by voice from heaven.

 

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14 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

At least four entries into the Resurrection for the Just or First Resurrection. At least three entries into the Resurrection for the Unjust or the Second Resurrection.

In Christ

Montana Marv

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge.(This is one group taken in the first resurrection) And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,(This is another group taken in the first resurrection) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.(This is yet another group taken in the first resurrection) And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." - Rev 20

But all are taken in the one and only first resurrection. This only happen after the A of D and after GT, not before. One 1st resurrection covering multiple works for the Lord.

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete." - Rev 20

The rest of the dead. All of them. Only after the millennium are they raised to face,

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Rev 20

 

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23 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I think you are correct. I feel very, very uneasy about all the camp followers that think they know.

It is like they all packed their bags for a trip on the Titanic...

I fear many will be disillusioned when it does not pan out the way they think and that 'great sky elevator' does not land in their back yard. I do not see that we are appointed to God's Wrath, but I do see the wrath of the ex-holy ones is going to incite much more trials and tribulations among men.

The pre-trib stuff was a cozy doctrine to keep all the pews warm. However, it is not real. All the various systems and predictions are quite wrong I feel. I am sad for those that have be led thus and might feel some kind of fuzzy that they are going to miss what millions will not. A selfish doctrine to say the least.

Yes, as foretold in scripture, a teaching that appeals to a desire to be comforted regardless of the testimony of the scriptures themselves.

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6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Rev 20 has to do with those beheaded for their testimony for Jesus Christ.  They had not worshiped the beast or his image and did not receive the Mark.  What is the time frame, the 70th Week Only for their testimony. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge." One group, the dead in Christ from all ages, and think also those who were alive and remained until His coming.

" And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God," This is another group distinct from the one seated on thrones.

" and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands." And yet another group

" And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." This life is likely spiritual life given to all followers of Jesus whether they were raised from the dead or still alive in mortal bodies when gathered by His angels.

Rev 20 has much more to say than just about the beheaded followers of Jesus. 

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4 hours ago, Diaste said:

"As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”" - Acts 9

Christ was not there in physical form, only by voice from heaven.

 

Then why did Saul fall to the ground if not for the presence of Christ.  The light was around Saul, not his companions, his companions still stood.  How do you know Christ was not there in physical form.  Acts 26:16 - I have appeared to you to appoint you.....

In Christ

Montana Marv

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4 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge." One group, the dead in Christ from all ages, and think also those who were alive and remained until His coming.

" And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God," This is another group distinct from the one seated on thrones.

" and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands." And yet another group

" And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." This life is likely spiritual life given to all followers of Jesus whether they were raised from the dead or still alive in mortal bodies when gathered by His angels.

Rev 20 has much more to say than just about the beheaded followers of Jesus. 

So you do believe that the beheaded ones are not seated on thrones (Bride/Church)

Spiritual life is given to Believers at their Conversion.

So you see many groups, not all are the Bride.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge.(This is one group taken in the first resurrection) And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,(This is another group taken in the first resurrection) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.(This is yet another group taken in the first resurrection) And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." - Rev 20

But all are taken in the one and only first resurrection. This only happen after the A of D and after GT, not before. One 1st resurrection covering multiple works for the Lord.

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete." - Rev 20

The rest of the dead. All of them. Only after the millennium are they raised to face,

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Rev 20

 

Now I see you now know there are many entries into the Resurrection for the Just.  Christ being the First Fruit.  What about those not killed at the end of the Mill; when do they go into the First Resurrection.  Do you see, many entries.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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7 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Then why did Saul fall to the ground if not for the presence of Christ.  The light was around Saul, not his companions, his companions still stood.  How do you know Christ was not there in physical form.  Acts 26:16 - I have appeared to you to appoint you.....

In Christ

Montana Marv

Several reasons:

Paul says it was a vision.

All fell but none said they saw anything. 

Only a voice is heard.

Since it's not recorded anything was seen then we cannot say if Jesus appeared in physical form, only that it was a vision, which can be given from anywhere to anywhere.

If Jesus came back here it would contradict a dozen scriptures that say we will see Him return as they saw Him go.

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8 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So you do believe that the beheaded ones are not seated on thrones (Bride/Church)

I didn't say that. I only pointed out the groups that fit a criteria and all were taken at the first resurrection when those who resisted the beast were gathered.

Quote

Spiritual life is given to Believers at their Conversion.

So you see many groups, not all are the Bride.

In Christ

Montana Marv

All are the bride, the elect, the gathered. You'll see.

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6 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

  What about those not killed at the end of the Mill; when do they go into the First Resurrection.  Do you see, many entries.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The first resurrection occurred at Christs Coming. I would assume if there are any left alive after the millennium, who are not those in New Jerusalem, would also face the final judgment of the 2nd death.

Scripture says Satan gathers ALL nations to battle against the Holy City and fire from God devours them all. They would all be dead in that case and would be raised in the 2nd resurrection to face the second death of the lake of fire. 

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