Pudgenik Posted June 17, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2017 On Tuesday, May 13, 2003 at 7:37 AM, George said: Hello brothers and sisters, Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the pre-trib rapture theological position. Why do you believe in a pre trib rapture? Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George I dont believe in the pre tri rapture, the teaching of it has become very self centered, and this is not what Jesus taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 20, 2017 On 17/06/2017 at 1:32 PM, Pudgenik said: I dont believe in the pre tri rapture, the teaching of it has become very self centered, and this is not what Jesus taught. Hi Pudgenik, Actually it is Christ centred as it is His purpose for the Body of Christ. He will draw the Body of believers, when come to the unity of the faith by the Holy Spirit, to Himself. He will then take them to His own throne in the third heaven where they will rule and reign with Him. Through out the tribulation they will be judging the world system and the fallen angels. Those are serving roles and part of dealing with the horror of this world. Always, but always seek to know what God`s purpose is and not denigrate what one does not understand. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted June 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 11:56 PM, n2thelight said: God hated Easu before he was born Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;" Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." The word used does not mean hate, it implies HE LOVED LESS....Its the same as when Jesus tells us we should hate our parents and serve him, it really means we should love Jesus/God above all people, including our parents. God didn't hate Esau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted June 20, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Revelation Man said: The word used does not mean hate, it implies HE LOVED LESS....Its the same as when Jesus tells us we should hate our parents and serve him, it really means we should love Jesus/God above all people, including our parents. God didn't hate Esau. My point was the fact, he was known before being born . I agree on the word hate as Christ used it,however I think God meant just what he said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issachar2007 Posted July 4, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2017 If you're committed to the pre-trib rapture view, you should read this blog posting on "The most misunderstood verse in the Bible." Read the whole post. http://www.thegospelintheendtimes.com/the-return-of-jesus/misunderstood-bible-verse/#more-3859 Once you start looking honestly at many of the pre-trib "proof texts" you will soon discover John Darby wasn't very good at Biblical hermeneutics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted July 13, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted July 13, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 6:50 AM, Marilyn C said: Hi Pudgenik, Actually it is Christ centred as it is His purpose for the Body of Christ. He will draw the Body of believers, when come to the unity of the faith by the Holy Spirit, to Himself. He will then take them to His own throne in the third heaven where they will rule and reign with Him. Through out the tribulation they will be judging the world system and the fallen angels. Those are serving roles and part of dealing with the horror of this world. Always, but always seek to know what God`s purpose is and not denigrate what one does not understand. Marilyn. Every time the rapture is actually described it is in post-trib context. For example 1 Corinthians 15 describes the rapture at the coming of Christ at time of the resurrection. Then 1 Thess 4/5 describes the rapture occurring as a thief which is a second coming event. On the day of the Lord, which is a second coming event. On a day of wrath which is a second coming event. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief Sure it's easy to misinterpret the verses if you so choose, but that would go against the natural wording of the letter to the Thessalonians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 14, 2017 14 hours ago, ARGOSY said: Every time the rapture is actually described it is in post-trib context. For example 1 Corinthians 15 describes the rapture at the coming of Christ at time of the resurrection. Then 1 Thess 4/5 describes the rapture occurring as a thief which is a second coming event. On the day of the Lord, which is a second coming event. On a day of wrath which is a second coming event. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief Sure it's easy to misinterpret the verses if you so choose, but that would go against the natural wording of the letter to the Thessalonians. Hi ARGOSY, So can you explain to me please, what exactly do you mean by `the natural wording of the letter to the Thessalonians?` Using the scriptures can you show me what you mean? Thank you, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted July 14, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi ARGOSY, So can you explain to me please, what exactly do you mean by `the natural wording of the letter to the Thessalonians?` Using the scriptures can you show me what you mean? Thank you, Marilyn. I can probably help, I think. Look at what he bolded... "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you." ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul is saying it's NOT necessary for him to tell them the times and season OF... the Lord's descent at the trump of God where the dead rise first and all get caught up into a cloud with Christ. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. They know perfectly for the reasons he described. The resurrection of the dead, the rapture, the second coming, are "the Day of the Lord." and COMES as a thief. Everything happens at the end of tribulation when people are cying for "PEACE AND SAFETY." People wouldn't cry for peace and safety if they were removed from it! So the natural wording of this and all rapture text is that it all takes place at the end of tribulation, the time known as the day of the Lord. Edited July 14, 2017 by fixerupper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, fixerupper said: I can probably help, I think. Look at what he bolded... "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you." ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul is saying it's NOT necessary for him to tell them the times and season OF... the Lord's descent at the trump of God where the dead rise first and all get caught up into a cloud with Christ. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. They know perfectly for the reasons he described. The resurrection of the dead, the rapture, the second coming, are "the Day of the Lord." and COMES as a thief. Everything happens at the end of tribulation when people are cying for "PEACE AND SAFETY." People wouldn't cry for peace and safety if they were removed from it! So the natural wording of this and all rapture text is that it all takes place at the end of tribulation, the time known as the day of the Lord. Thank you fixerupper, Hear what you are saying, however you would need proof from scripture that people are saying `peace and safety,` at the end of the trib. Still waiting for ARGOSY to give his thoughts too. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted July 14, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Thank you fixerupper, Hear what you are saying, however you would need proof from scripture that people are saying `peace and safety,` at the end of the trib. Still waiting for ARGOSY to give his thoughts too. Marilyn. Safety means "security from enemies and dangers." People say peace and safety at the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is when Christ returns to do battle. He removes his own at a time when there is little peace and safety on the planet and He returns to destroy them who destroy the earth. So the Day of the Lord happens is a time harvest and destruction as the Lord returns to do battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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