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Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

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3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Point one; We usually hear the Gospel first and then repent.  You have it backwards with Ephraim as a type.

John the Baptist called for repentance even before Christ took office as High Priest to give the gospel.

 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand

 

The very act of returning is an act of repentance, for that is the meaning of the term. 

 

Here is true repentance

 

With weeping they shall come, and by supplication I will lead them… For I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My first-born.

 

 

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 The Prodigal Son is about God's love toward us, We fall and trespass, we fall away, and God's accepts us when we return to Him.  Nothing to do with being a type of Ephraim.

 

Then you have completely misunderstood the primary lesson of the Parable of the Prodigal Son: restoring Israel to sonship (first born) who God calls  “Children of the Living God” (Christian) Hosea, with God the Father and brotherly relationship with Judah. 

 

Ephraim shall call out, “Arise, and let us go up to Zion [now Sion, the heavenly mountain of God], to the Lord our God.”… Proclaim, give praise, and say, ‘O Lord, save [yasha]

 

The verb yasha, “to save,” which is the root of Jesus’ Hebrew name, Yeshua. 

 

The anti semtic nature of Dispensationalism is the total rejection of Ephraim being Christianized, being the first born, being children of the living God in order to justify a replacement theology of pure gentile ethnic stock as the true first borns, instead of companions of Ephrahim.

 

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 Your image of the Samaritan woman being a symbolism of Ephraim accepting Christ is off base.  Ephraim has his inheritance with the rest of Israel, one of them receiving a portion of the Land.  We as Believers do not have any inheritance in the Land.

 

Ephraims inheritance is a double portion inheritance, he gets the land of israel restored to him and he gets the nations also as his inheritance.

 

Further the Samaritan woman makes her ethnicity stock very clear to you.....she calls Jacob her father, Arabs do not call Israel (Jacob) their father. They call Esau their father. So very much on song and far from off base.

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 So both Rahab and Ruth were not of Israel, but yet in the linage of Christ.  

 

Sorry but you have no evidence at all to conclude Ruth was anything but an Israelite.

 

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation.

 

The law is abundantly crystal clear and settled on this matter.

 

Further: -  Your people will be my people and your God my God.

 

Will be or Shall be is missing from the original text, you have no evidence to conclude a future tense in the sentence as apposed to a present tense.

 

Your people are my people.

 

A simple statement of fact declared by Ruth.

 

As for Rahab you have no evidence that one of the two spies was actually Salmon, the great grandfather of king David in order to conclude the Rahab in Christ genealogy is the very same Rahab the harlot of Jericho. Lets not forget how many Mary's we have in scripture.

 

Further to this, biblical archeology concludes Jericho's fall in 1400BC and Boaz wedding to Ruth in 1283 BC thats a 117 years.

 

If we conclude that Rahab gave birth to Boaz a year after the event of Jericho that would make Boaz a 116 yrs old when he married Ruth.....if boaz was born to Rahab the harlot lets say 30 yrs after the event of Jericho that would make Boaz 87 years old when he married Ruth.....????? Thats a complete problem. 

Edited by inchrist

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6 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

You mean like how you're trying to show below us who beget who?

 

Psst! Ephraim is the grandson of Rachel, not a descendent of Leah.

And Judah is the son of Leah, not a descendent of Rachel.

Can't you do anything right?

IsraelTribes.jpg

Did you not think I would know this??

 

Now take the geneology map of yours and watch the magic happen, Im going to show you something you dont know....

 

When the Two Houses of Israel split into two separate nations as seen in 1st Kings 12, the Tribe of Benjamin (Rachel’s second son after Joseph) assimilated into Judah

 

Rachel’s son became part of Judah. 

 

Leah’s son, Judah became the  keeper of Benjamin forever  (Genesis 43:8-9) and so Judah then became a son of Rachel by proxy

 

Also, Judah was the one who was against killing Joseph  Genesis 37:27. Therefore, Judah became dear to Rachel as one of her own sons, 

 

 

Scriptual confirmation again

 

Matthew 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and  slew all the children that were in Bethlehem , and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,

 

18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning,  Rachel weeping for her children , and would not be comforted, because they are not. 

 

And 

 

(Jeremiah) 31:15 Thus says YHWH; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping;  Rachel weeping for her children  refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

 

 

As we can see from the above verse, the House Judah (Bethlehem) is seen here as a metaphor of Rachel. Why? It is because of what I just illustrated. Rachel ends up becoming known as the House of Judah because her body was buried there.

 

Judah & Benjamin are now counted as the sons of Rachel.

 

Leah ends up becoming the House of Ephrayim! 

 

They switch places.... Rachel’s son Joseph ends up ruling over Leah’s sons through his son Ephrayim.

 

Rachel symbolizes the House of  Judah because that is where her body was buried when she died.

 

The other ten tribes were given a divorce decree

 

Since Rachel had two children, she is a picture of the Two Southern Tribes of Judah. And since Leah had ten sons (including the sons she acquired by her maids) she is a picture of the 10 tribes.

 

This switching of places is common in scripture. The last will come first, the first will come last

 

Jacob crossed his hands over in Genesis 48:18-19 when blessing Joseph’s two sons Ephrayim & Manasseh

Boomshakalakka!

Edited by inchrist

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41 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Sorry but you have no evidence at all to conclude Ruth was anything but an Israelite.

The two sons married Moabite women;  (Ruth 1:4), and Ruth the Moabitess, (2:2);  She is the Moabitess who came back from Moab with Naomi (2:6).  How you left your father and mother and your homeland and came to live with a people you did not know before. (2:11b).  Ruth the Moabitess said (2:21).  On the day you buy the land from Naomi and from Ruth the Moabitess (4:5)

There are two kinsman redeemers in the book of Ruth.  The first in line to buy Naomi and Ruth's land, which he did not buy (Ruth 4:6)  And the next in line to buy the land which became the true kinsman redeemer, Boaz (4:9)

Matt 1:5 - Salmon, the father of Boaz,  whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth.

The two sons married Israelite women.  Ruth the Israelite.  She is the Israelite who came back from our homeland. Ruth the Israelite said.  To buy the land from Naomi and Ruth the Israelite.

It seems to me that Scripture identifies Ruth as from Moab being a Moabitess many, many times.

What say you, or do others say.  Scripture says Ruth is the Moabitess woman.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

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You know, why is it that we go round and round about the being "caught up".  We will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air just before He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.  Go to my work here for proof:

https://meccasevenmountains.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

 

Edited by BlazyJon

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4 hours ago, BlazyJon said:

You know, why is it that we go round and round about the being "caught up".  We will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air just before He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.  Go to my work here for proof:

https://meccasevenmountains.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

 

May I call you God the Father.  Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Matt 25:1 - At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. v.6 - At midnight the cry rang out; Here is the bridegroom, come out and meet him. v.13 - Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or hour.

According to what you seem to believe, the five foolish virgins did not see the Second Coming, they went to buy more oil, they got left behind.  Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.

The thing is at Midnight (or the last hour) the shops would be closed and they(the five foolish virgins) would have to wait until morning the next day to buy their oil.  So the Rapture and Second Coming as a one two punch is out of the question.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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30 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

May I call you God the Father.  Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Matt 25:1 - At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. v.6 - At midnight the cry rang out; Here is the bridegroom, come out and meet him. v.13 - Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or hour.

According to what you seem to believe, the five foolish virgins did not see the Second Coming, they went to buy more oil, they got left behind.  Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.

The thing is at Midnight (or the last hour) the shops would be closed and they(the five foolish virgins) would have to wait until morning the next day to buy their oil.  So the Rapture and Second Coming as a one two punch is out of the question.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Our blessed hope for His appearing have nothing to do with 5 foolish virgins and 5 wise virgins... I will explain.  Good topic by the way.

Matthew 22:1-13 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Parable of the Wedding Feast


22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ *And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 8:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

*the one who is speechless is one of the "few that are chosen".  He chooses to be speechless.

The following is when Jesus is revealed period; His second time apart from sin but for salvation Hebrews 9:28.

Hebrews 10:37 New King James Version (NKJV)

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[a] who is coming will come and will not tarry.

The following is when the sons are referenced to, and come out from outer darkness.  (They weep and gnash their teeth for the lost; this has nothing to do with pain if that is what you thought.)

Matthew 25 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins


25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom *was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming;[a] go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

 

*So we see He is delayed in this parable, because it refers to outer darkness, or HEAVEN, re-read verse 25. 

 

The Parable of the Talents


14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

If a son comes back from outer darkness who kept batteries or oil for his flashlight or lamp; but buried his talent then to outer darkness he goes again.

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So this period of scripture I am dividing for you is for the 1000 year reign.  The sons will choose to be speechless; and the earnest expectation of creation awaits the revealing of the sons of God (Romans 8:19).  The sons will be in outer darkness during the 1000 year reign and at around midnight they will return.

 

Edited by BlazyJon

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9 minutes ago, BlazyJon said:

So this period of scripture I am dividing for you is for the 1000 year reign.  The sons will choose to be speechless; and the earnest expectation of creation awaits the revealing of the sons of God (Romans 8:19).  The sons will be in outer darkness during the 1000 year reign and at around midnight they will return.

The Scriptures you quoted are the here and now, not the 1000 year reign of Christ.  Outer darkness is the Lake of Fire, never to return.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Just now, Montana Marv said:

The Scriptures you quoted are the here and now, not the 1000 year reign of Christ.  Outer darkness is the Lake of Fire, never to return.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Tell me what this verse means:

Matthew 8:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

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14 minutes ago, BlazyJon said:

Tell me what this verse means:

Matthew 8:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Yes the sons of this worldly kingdom will be cast into outer darkness.  There time for doing good or evil is now,  We are judged for what we do in this world,  They did not help the poor, feed the needy, cloth those without clothes, go to those in prison; those who did not, are cast into the outer darkness,  Those who did do these thing go into everlasting righteousness.

Our citizenship is in heaven, though we are here on this earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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31 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Yes the sons of this worldly kingdom will be cast into outer darkness.  There time for doing good or evil is now,  We are judged for what we do in this world,  They did not help the poor, feed the needy, cloth those without clothes, go to those in prison; those who did not, are cast into the outer darkness,  Those who did do these thing go into everlasting righteousness.

Our citizenship is in heaven, though we are here on this earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Last I checked, Jesus didn't say sons of the "worldy" kingdom.  

And Jesus did not say they would be cast into outer darkness, but everlasting fire;  I am referring to those that did not "go into prison, feed the hungry, etc. etc.

Take note on this next passage:

Matthew 20:1-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard


20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,[a] and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’

8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”[c]

Just as many are called and few are chosen at the wedding feast, these as well go to work.  The sons of the kingdom will be working in outer darkness.  Otherwise, why does it say "kingdom of heaven" at verse 20?  

Edited by BlazyJon

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