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Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture


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4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Imagine this all of the above for being simply what is there and letting what is there be what is there... That's like imminence we see in Scripture and in history … nothing addresses the evidence of this but pre-trib view!
Historically [snip]

The Early Church's Belief in an Imminent Rapture

Some of the early Church writers wrote about the persecution of the Tribulation as if the saints will be present. However, a number of early Christian commentaries suggested that the Church will be delivered supernaturally before the Great Tribulation. Some posttribulation writers declare that the hope of a pretribulation Rapture and deliverance from the Great Tribulation was never taught until the Plymouth Brethren began to emphasize this around 1820. As this chapter will show, there is a great deal of evidence to illustrate that some writers in the first few centuries of the Church believed in Christ rapturing the saints to deliver them from this coming Tribulation. The doctrine of the imminent Rapture was clearly taught in the New Testament and by some writers in the first centuries of the early Church. There was a difference of opinion within the early Church about the timing of the Rapture just as we find today. However, the hope of the imminent Rapture clearly existed in the writings of the early Church.

The Didache

A Church manual from approximately  A.D. 110, called the Didache, confirms the belief of these Christians in the imminent return of Christ for believers. This was written less than fifteen years after John wrote the Revelation.

In the Didache 16, we find the following instructions.
"quoted"

1. Be ye watchful for your life! Let not your lamps be extinguished nor your loins ungirded, but be ye ready! For ye know not the hour in which your Lord cometh.

2. Assemble yourselves frequently, seeking what is fitting for your souls. For the whole time of your faith will not be profitable to you, if you are not made perfect in the last time...then the world-deceiver shall appear as a son of god and shall work signs and wonders…

6. And then shall the signs of the truth appear, first the sign of a rift in heaven, then the sign of the sound of a trumpet, and thirdly, a resurrection of the dead.

7. but not of all, but as it was said, 'The Lord will come and all His saints with Him.'

8. Then shall the world see the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven." In this short passage we see a strong belief in the imminent return of Christ: "Be ye ready! For ye know not the hour in which your Lord cometh." There is also a suggestion that the writer of the Didache was familiar with the teaching of Rev 20 that the First Resurrection of the believers will be separated from the Second Resurrection of the wicked dead by the millennial period when he talks about "the resurrection of the dead, but not of all."

After warning Christians to prepare for "the hour in which your Lord cometh," the Didache said, "Then, the world-deceiver shall appear." This order of events suggests the Rapture will precede the appearance of the world-deceiver, the Antichrist.

Hippolytus' Treatise on the Christ and Antichrist

Hippolytus, who lived from  A.D. 170 to 236, was the most brilliant of the early Christian writers. Writing in his Treatise on the Christ and Antichrist (section 66) about the Rapture he quoted extensively and approvingly from Paul's writing in 1 Thess 4:12: "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." He reminds his readers of the hope of Christ's imminent return. He wrote that we should be "'looking for that blessed hope and appearing of our God and Savior' when having raised the saints among us, He will rejoice with them glorifying the Father."

The Epistles of Cyprian

Cyprian lived from  A.D. 200 to 258, and wrote extensively on Christian doctrine. In his Epistle 55, chapter 7, he wrote about his belief in Christ's ability to deliver the Church from the Antichrist's tribulation. "Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecutions, or the coming of the threatening Antichrist, as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. Antichrist is coming, but above him comes Christ also. The enemy goeth about and rageth, but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our suffering and our wounds. The adversary is enraged and threatens, but there is One who can deliver us from his hands." Cyprian's declaration that Christ "is One who can deliver us from his [Antichrist's] hands" suggests the possibility of the Church being raptured before the Tribulation period. It is significant that he did not write about enduring the persecution of the Antichrist. Rather, Cyprian promised that Christ "is One who can deliver us from his hands."

Cyprian quoted Paul's prophecy about the translation of the saints, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which are asleep in Jesus will God bring with Him" (1 Thess 4:13). Speaking of the immanency of the Rapture, he wrote, "Who would not crave to be changed and transformed into the likeness of Christ and to arrive more quickly to the dignity of heavenly glory." After telling his readers that the coming resurrection was the hope of the Christian, he points out that the Rapture should motivate us as we see the last days approaching. Cyprian says that "we who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible." Referring to his hope of the approaching Rapture, he encouraged his readers as follows: "Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?" Cyprian concludes his comments on the translation of the saints with these words: "Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world, and restores us to paradise and the kingdom" (Treatises of Cyprian - 21 to 26).

Victorinus - Commentary of the Apocalypse

Victorinus, bishop of Petau, lived from  A.D. 240 till his martyrdom during the last great persecution in  A.D. 304. In his Commentary on the Apocalypse he interpreted chapter 6 of the Revelation to promise the deliverance of the Church from the tribulation period. "'And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.' For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. 'And the mountain and the islands were moved from their places.' Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid the persecution." In his comments on chapter 15, Victorinus wrote, "'And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.' For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst." These comments reveal that this second century pastor also understood that the saints would be "removed" to escape the wrath of God "when the Church shall have gone out of the midst" of the coming tribulation.

The Shepherd of Hermes

Another example from the early decades of the second century is the writing known as The Shepherd of Hermes (A.D. 130). This book, as all writings outside the Bible, has no authority in terms of teaching doctrine. However, as an example of writing widely read by Christians in the period shortly after the death of the Apostles, it provides evidence of how some early Christians viewed the return of Christ. Part of this apocalyptic vision focused on the church's deliverance from the tribulation. The writer, after escaping a huge terrifying beast with four colors on its head (white, red, black and gold), met a virgin in his vision, "like a bride going forth from a bride-chamber, all in white...I recognized from the former visions that it was the church." The virgin explained that he escaped destruction from the beast (the Great Tribulation) because of God's special deliverance. "Thou hast escaped a great tribulation because thou hast believed and at the sight of such a huge beast hast not doubted. Go therefore and declare to the Elect of the Lord His mighty deeds and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation which is to come. If ye therefore prepare yourselves and with your whole heart turn to the Lord in repentance, then shall ye be able to escape it, if your heart is pure and blameless." After explaining to him that "the golden colour stands for you who have escaped from this world," the virgin concluded her messages with, "Now ye know the symbol of the great tribulation to come. But if ye are willing, it shall be nothing." Despite the unusual details of this so-called vision, it clearly conveys the understanding of this early Christian writer that the faithful Church is promised a supernatural escape from the great tribulation. When posttribulationists make the claim that no one ever presented a pretribulation Rapture before 1830, they display their ignorance of a great deal of the history of prophetic interpretation. The French writer Joubert wrote: "Nothing makes men so imprudent and conceited as ignorance of the past and a scorn for old books."

Lactantius' Commentary on the Apocalypse

In Lactantius' Commentary on the Apocalypse (second century A.D.), he wrote about Rev 6:14: "'And the heaven withdrew to be rolled away', that is, that the Church shall be taken away. 'And every mountain and the islands were moved from their places.' Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid the persecution." While this passage is not definitive, it suggests through the words, "the Church shall be taken away" an anticipation of a supernatural Rapture of the Church from apocalyptic persecutions (probably the Tribulation period). Note that none of these writers quoted here suggests that the Church will experience the Great Tribulation and the Mark of the Beast system of the Antichrist.

The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles

Most scholars accept that this writing was composed before  A.D. 120 and therefore indicates early Church attitudes. While this writing was never accepted as part of the canon of the New Testament its widespread popularity suggests that its ideas were held by many. Regarding the anticipation of the imminent return of Christ, consider this passage from chapter 16. "Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh."

The Epistle of Barnabas

An epistle to the church at Corinth was written around  A.D. 100 by someone named Barnabas. Although modern scholars reject the position that this Barnabas was the companion of Paul, the early Church believed that Paul's fellow worker wrote this book. Regardless of who wrote this letter, it represents one of the earliest writings of the Christians outside the New Testament. The writer certainly expected the Lord to come shortly as he indicated in these passages (chapter 4). "The final stumbling block approaches, concerning which it is written, as Enoch says, 'For this end the Lord has cut short the times and the days that His Beloved may hasten; and He will come to the inheritance...We take earnest heed in these last days; for the whole time of your faith will profit you nothing, unless now in this wicked time we also withstand coming sources of danger, as becometh the sons of God." Barnabas concluded his chapter 20 with these words: "On this account there will be a resurrection...For the day is at hand on which all things shall perish with the evil (one). The Lord is near, and His reward." This epistle clearly conveys the writer's hope of the imminent return of Christ to take the saints to heaven.

The First Epistle of Clement

Clement, a Gentile who became bishop of Rome, was a fellow laborer with the Apostle Paul at Philippi in  A.D. 57. He lived from  A.D. 30 to 100 and witnessed the explosive growth of the New Testament Church. In his first Epistle to the Corinthians he criticized the doubters who were expressing their disbelief in Christ's return because of the long delay since Christ's resurrection. In chapter 23 he wrote: "Far from us be that which is written, 'Wretched are they who are of a double mind, and of a doubting heart; who say, These things we have heard even in the times of our fathers; but, behold, we have grown old and none of them has happened unto us. Ye foolish ones.'" Comparing God's time to the time it takes a tree to mature, Clement then concludes with a clear expression of his belief in the imminency of the return of Christ that he had learned from the Apostle Paul. "Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, 'Speedily will He come, and will not tarry;' and, 'The Lord shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Holy One, for whom ye look.'"

The Pretribulation Rapture Was Taught Three Hundred Years Ago

Many writers ignorantly assert that the pretribulation Rapture theory was invented in 1820. While the clearest statement of the pretribulation position was articulated by N. Darby at that time, they ignore these writings of the early Christians that anticipate Christ's coming to deliver His saints before the Tribulation period. Furthermore, many of these writers are ignorant of the other men who developed a clearer understanding of the Rapture in the centuries before 1820. Very few ideas appear out of nowhere. These concepts are usually "in the air" and are discussed for decades before someone publishes a manuscript.

Peter Jurieu

Peter Jurieu was a French Calvinist preacher and was considered "the Goliath of the French Protestants." He wrote in A.D. 1687 about the Rapture and the premillennial return of Christ. Jurieu discussed the coming of Jesus to translate the saints prior to the time He returns in judgment. He preached in Rotterdam as one of the greatest of the Reformers in his day. I found his rare and fascinating book, Approaching Deliverance of the Church, in a small bookstore in Wales. In his

book, Jurieu refuted the amillennial teaching of his day and clearly argued for the premillennial position regarding Christ's return. He also believed that Christ would come in the air to rapture the saints and return to heaven before the Battle of Armageddon. While his teaching in this area was tentative, his book disproves the theory of the posttribulation teachers that assert that the pretribulation Rapture was first invented by Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. As my research indicates, the pretribulation Rapture was articulated in both the New Testament, the writings of some of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and Peter Jurieu, long before 1820.

Over one hundred and thirty years before Darby, Jurieu spoke of a secret Rapture, "a kind of a clandestine coming of Christ" prior to His coming in glory and judgment at Armageddon. In chapter 24:8:1 he wrote of John's prophecy about the Millennium, "The saints shall reign with Christ a thousand years." He commented, "But to me it seems very evident that this reign shall begin with some miraculous appearance of our Lord in His glory. After which He shall go back to Heaven." Expanding on his interpretation, he wrote, "There is a first coming of Christ, and it may be a first Resurrection. Lastly, who can be certain, that this coming of Christ, to establish His Kingdom upon Earth, shall not be in that manner, with the voice of an Arch-angel, and in great magnificence and Glory? Who can prove, that at that first coming of Christ He shall not raise some of the dead, as St. John seems expressly to have fore-told?"

Writing directly about the coming Rapture he compared it to the resurrection of the Old Testament saints when Christ rose from the grave. He asked, "Why may not Christ raise some of the New Testament Saints, at the coming of His Kingdom, as well as raise some of the ancient patriarchs, when He arose from the grave?" Jurieu rejected the view that Christ will stay in heaven until the final judgment of the world. He suggested that Christ will first "come down from heaven" in the air in "a glorious apparition, returning to heaven." While these comments are not conclusive, they do suggest that the idea of Christ coming in the air for His saints prior to Armageddon was under discussion over three hundred years ago. As the Reformers adopted a literal approach to interpreting the Bible's prophecies, they began to notice that the Rapture was a separate and earlier event from Christ's coming to defeat the forces of Antichrist at Armageddon. [snip]

 

Yes. The preponderance of evidence for scriptural truth should always originate from the mouth of man.

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4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Imagine this all of the above for being simply what is there and letting what is there be what is there... That's like imminence we see in Scripture and in history … nothing addresses the evidence of this but pre-trib view!
Historically [snip]

The Early Church's Belief in an Imminent Rapture

Some of the early Church writers wrote about the persecution of the Tribulation as if the saints will be present. However, a number of early Christian commentaries suggested that the Church will be delivered supernaturally before the Great Tribulation. Some posttribulation writers declare that the hope of a pretribulation Rapture and deliverance from the Great Tribulation was never taught until the Plymouth Brethren began to emphasize this around 1820. As this chapter will show, there is a great deal of evidence to illustrate that some writers in the first few centuries of the Church believed in Christ rapturing the saints to deliver them from this coming Tribulation. The doctrine of the imminent Rapture was clearly taught in the New Testament and by some writers in the first centuries of the early Church. There was a difference of opinion within the early Church about the timing of the Rapture just as we find today. However, the hope of the imminent Rapture clearly existed in the writings of the early Church.

The Didache

A Church manual from approximately  A.D. 110, called the Didache, confirms the belief of these Christians in the imminent return of Christ for believers. This was written less than fifteen years after John wrote the Revelation.

In the Didache 16, we find the following instructions.
"quoted"

1. Be ye watchful for your life! Let not your lamps be extinguished nor your loins ungirded, but be ye ready! For ye know not the hour in which your Lord cometh.

2. Assemble yourselves frequently, seeking what is fitting for your souls. For the whole time of your faith will not be profitable to you, if you are not made perfect in the last time...then the world-deceiver shall appear as a son of god and shall work signs and wonders…

6. And then shall the signs of the truth appear, first the sign of a rift in heaven, then the sign of the sound of a trumpet, and thirdly, a resurrection of the dead.

7. but not of all, but as it was said, 'The Lord will come and all His saints with Him.'

8. Then shall the world see the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven." In this short passage we see a strong belief in the imminent return of Christ: "Be ye ready! For ye know not the hour in which your Lord cometh." There is also a suggestion that the writer of the Didache was familiar with the teaching of Rev 20 that the First Resurrection of the believers will be separated from the Second Resurrection of the wicked dead by the millennial period when he talks about "the resurrection of the dead, but not of all."

After warning Christians to prepare for "the hour in which your Lord cometh," the Didache said, "Then, the world-deceiver shall appear." This order of events suggests the Rapture will precede the appearance of the world-deceiver, the Antichrist.

Hippolytus' Treatise on the Christ and Antichrist

Hippolytus, who lived from  A.D. 170 to 236, was the most brilliant of the early Christian writers. Writing in his Treatise on the Christ and Antichrist (section 66) about the Rapture he quoted extensively and approvingly from Paul's writing in 1 Thess 4:12: "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." He reminds his readers of the hope of Christ's imminent return. He wrote that we should be "'looking for that blessed hope and appearing of our God and Savior' when having raised the saints among us, He will rejoice with them glorifying the Father."

The Epistles of Cyprian

Cyprian lived from  A.D. 200 to 258, and wrote extensively on Christian doctrine. In his Epistle 55, chapter 7, he wrote about his belief in Christ's ability to deliver the Church from the Antichrist's tribulation. "Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecutions, or the coming of the threatening Antichrist, as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. Antichrist is coming, but above him comes Christ also. The enemy goeth about and rageth, but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our suffering and our wounds. The adversary is enraged and threatens, but there is One who can deliver us from his hands." Cyprian's declaration that Christ "is One who can deliver us from his [Antichrist's] hands" suggests the possibility of the Church being raptured before the Tribulation period. It is significant that he did not write about enduring the persecution of the Antichrist. Rather, Cyprian promised that Christ "is One who can deliver us from his hands."

Cyprian quoted Paul's prophecy about the translation of the saints, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which are asleep in Jesus will God bring with Him" (1 Thess 4:13). Speaking of the immanency of the Rapture, he wrote, "Who would not crave to be changed and transformed into the likeness of Christ and to arrive more quickly to the dignity of heavenly glory." After telling his readers that the coming resurrection was the hope of the Christian, he points out that the Rapture should motivate us as we see the last days approaching. Cyprian says that "we who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible." Referring to his hope of the approaching Rapture, he encouraged his readers as follows: "Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?" Cyprian concludes his comments on the translation of the saints with these words: "Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world, and restores us to paradise and the kingdom" (Treatises of Cyprian - 21 to 26).

Victorinus - Commentary of the Apocalypse

Victorinus, bishop of Petau, lived from  A.D. 240 till his martyrdom during the last great persecution in  A.D. 304. In his Commentary on the Apocalypse he interpreted chapter 6 of the Revelation to promise the deliverance of the Church from the tribulation period. "'And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.' For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. 'And the mountain and the islands were moved from their places.' Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid the persecution." In his comments on chapter 15, Victorinus wrote, "'And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.' For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst." These comments reveal that this second century pastor also understood that the saints would be "removed" to escape the wrath of God "when the Church shall have gone out of the midst" of the coming tribulation.

The Shepherd of Hermes

Another example from the early decades of the second century is the writing known as The Shepherd of Hermes (A.D. 130). This book, as all writings outside the Bible, has no authority in terms of teaching doctrine. However, as an example of writing widely read by Christians in the period shortly after the death of the Apostles, it provides evidence of how some early Christians viewed the return of Christ. Part of this apocalyptic vision focused on the church's deliverance from the tribulation. The writer, after escaping a huge terrifying beast with four colors on its head (white, red, black and gold), met a virgin in his vision, "like a bride going forth from a bride-chamber, all in white...I recognized from the former visions that it was the church." The virgin explained that he escaped destruction from the beast (the Great Tribulation) because of God's special deliverance. "Thou hast escaped a great tribulation because thou hast believed and at the sight of such a huge beast hast not doubted. Go therefore and declare to the Elect of the Lord His mighty deeds and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation which is to come. If ye therefore prepare yourselves and with your whole heart turn to the Lord in repentance, then shall ye be able to escape it, if your heart is pure and blameless." After explaining to him that "the golden colour stands for you who have escaped from this world," the virgin concluded her messages with, "Now ye know the symbol of the great tribulation to come. But if ye are willing, it shall be nothing." Despite the unusual details of this so-called vision, it clearly conveys the understanding of this early Christian writer that the faithful Church is promised a supernatural escape from the great tribulation. When posttribulationists make the claim that no one ever presented a pretribulation Rapture before 1830, they display their ignorance of a great deal of the history of prophetic interpretation. The French writer Joubert wrote: "Nothing makes men so imprudent and conceited as ignorance of the past and a scorn for old books."

Lactantius' Commentary on the Apocalypse

In Lactantius' Commentary on the Apocalypse (second century A.D.), he wrote about Rev 6:14: "'And the heaven withdrew to be rolled away', that is, that the Church shall be taken away. 'And every mountain and the islands were moved from their places.' Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid the persecution." While this passage is not definitive, it suggests through the words, "the Church shall be taken away" an anticipation of a supernatural Rapture of the Church from apocalyptic persecutions (probably the Tribulation period). Note that none of these writers quoted here suggests that the Church will experience the Great Tribulation and the Mark of the Beast system of the Antichrist.

The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles

Most scholars accept that this writing was composed before  A.D. 120 and therefore indicates early Church attitudes. While this writing was never accepted as part of the canon of the New Testament its widespread popularity suggests that its ideas were held by many. Regarding the anticipation of the imminent return of Christ, consider this passage from chapter 16. "Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh."

The Epistle of Barnabas

An epistle to the church at Corinth was written around  A.D. 100 by someone named Barnabas. Although modern scholars reject the position that this Barnabas was the companion of Paul, the early Church believed that Paul's fellow worker wrote this book. Regardless of who wrote this letter, it represents one of the earliest writings of the Christians outside the New Testament. The writer certainly expected the Lord to come shortly as he indicated in these passages (chapter 4). "The final stumbling block approaches, concerning which it is written, as Enoch says, 'For this end the Lord has cut short the times and the days that His Beloved may hasten; and He will come to the inheritance...We take earnest heed in these last days; for the whole time of your faith will profit you nothing, unless now in this wicked time we also withstand coming sources of danger, as becometh the sons of God." Barnabas concluded his chapter 20 with these words: "On this account there will be a resurrection...For the day is at hand on which all things shall perish with the evil (one). The Lord is near, and His reward." This epistle clearly conveys the writer's hope of the imminent return of Christ to take the saints to heaven.

The First Epistle of Clement

Clement, a Gentile who became bishop of Rome, was a fellow laborer with the Apostle Paul at Philippi in  A.D. 57. He lived from  A.D. 30 to 100 and witnessed the explosive growth of the New Testament Church. In his first Epistle to the Corinthians he criticized the doubters who were expressing their disbelief in Christ's return because of the long delay since Christ's resurrection. In chapter 23 he wrote: "Far from us be that which is written, 'Wretched are they who are of a double mind, and of a doubting heart; who say, These things we have heard even in the times of our fathers; but, behold, we have grown old and none of them has happened unto us. Ye foolish ones.'" Comparing God's time to the time it takes a tree to mature, Clement then concludes with a clear expression of his belief in the imminency of the return of Christ that he had learned from the Apostle Paul. "Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, 'Speedily will He come, and will not tarry;' and, 'The Lord shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Holy One, for whom ye look.'"

The Pretribulation Rapture Was Taught Three Hundred Years Ago

Many writers ignorantly assert that the pretribulation Rapture theory was invented in 1820. While the clearest statement of the pretribulation position was articulated by N. Darby at that time, they ignore these writings of the early Christians that anticipate Christ's coming to deliver His saints before the Tribulation period. Furthermore, many of these writers are ignorant of the other men who developed a clearer understanding of the Rapture in the centuries before 1820. Very few ideas appear out of nowhere. These concepts are usually "in the air" and are discussed for decades before someone publishes a manuscript.

Peter Jurieu

Peter Jurieu was a French Calvinist preacher and was considered "the Goliath of the French Protestants." He wrote in A.D. 1687 about the Rapture and the premillennial return of Christ. Jurieu discussed the coming of Jesus to translate the saints prior to the time He returns in judgment. He preached in Rotterdam as one of the greatest of the Reformers in his day. I found his rare and fascinating book, Approaching Deliverance of the Church, in a small bookstore in Wales. In his

book, Jurieu refuted the amillennial teaching of his day and clearly argued for the premillennial position regarding Christ's return. He also believed that Christ would come in the air to rapture the saints and return to heaven before the Battle of Armageddon. While his teaching in this area was tentative, his book disproves the theory of the posttribulation teachers that assert that the pretribulation Rapture was first invented by Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. As my research indicates, the pretribulation Rapture was articulated in both the New Testament, the writings of some of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and Peter Jurieu, long before 1820.

Over one hundred and thirty years before Darby, Jurieu spoke of a secret Rapture, "a kind of a clandestine coming of Christ" prior to His coming in glory and judgment at Armageddon. In chapter 24:8:1 he wrote of John's prophecy about the Millennium, "The saints shall reign with Christ a thousand years." He commented, "But to me it seems very evident that this reign shall begin with some miraculous appearance of our Lord in His glory. After which He shall go back to Heaven." Expanding on his interpretation, he wrote, "There is a first coming of Christ, and it may be a first Resurrection. Lastly, who can be certain, that this coming of Christ, to establish His Kingdom upon Earth, shall not be in that manner, with the voice of an Arch-angel, and in great magnificence and Glory? Who can prove, that at that first coming of Christ He shall not raise some of the dead, as St. John seems expressly to have fore-told?"

Writing directly about the coming Rapture he compared it to the resurrection of the Old Testament saints when Christ rose from the grave. He asked, "Why may not Christ raise some of the New Testament Saints, at the coming of His Kingdom, as well as raise some of the ancient patriarchs, when He arose from the grave?" Jurieu rejected the view that Christ will stay in heaven until the final judgment of the world. He suggested that Christ will first "come down from heaven" in the air in "a glorious apparition, returning to heaven." While these comments are not conclusive, they do suggest that the idea of Christ coming in the air for His saints prior to Armageddon was under discussion over three hundred years ago. As the Reformers adopted a literal approach to interpreting the Bible's prophecies, they began to notice that the Rapture was a separate and earlier event from Christ's coming to defeat the forces of Antichrist at Armageddon. [snip]

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

These select quotes paint a whole different picture than reading all that these men had to say does. Having done real reasearch, that is not just hunting for snippets in support of my ideas, I can say with certainty that most of these, if not all, wrote such as to demonstrate that they expected the church to see the antichrist and be persecuted by Him. They expected the rapture to be after the great tribulation. Take this from a previously staunch pre-tribber who formerly used such material as you present.

That's all I have time to say now.

Hallelujah

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On 6/22/2018 at 11:53 PM, Sojourner414 said:

In other words: you have no refutation. As for "believing all of what I said"; you're the one who dared me to go look (again), so I did.

And what refutation would suffice? What argument should I propose that you haven't heard multiple times? You seem to be a person of deep conviction, secure in your knowledge. How would I add to that?

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Sad, because I won't be.

You may find it sad and I appreciate the sentiment, I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will soon be reality. It would be best to prepare the heart and mind.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

You may find it sad and I appreciate the sentiment, I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will soon be reality. It would be best to prepare the heart and mind and let Jesus save your spirit.

Sound council.  No matter how earnestly one believes in and desires a pretrib rapture, prepare for great tribulation.  Disconnect from the things of this world and set your affection on things above.  Follow Jesus.

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1 hour ago, Davida said:

Why is it some insist it is because of preference or fear, when my view on Pre-trib, came because of reading the scriptures. I got more  news, in my case  I was from a church that doesn't even believe in the rapture or the tribulation-- period-- When I read the Bible for myself,  I had no preconceived notions. You might disagree with my view, and that is fine, all we can do is wait and see when it will  occur, but don't assume anyone is fearful and that is the reason for their view, because that would be false and a little insulting. 

Because that makes them SEERS of the truth, they understand why we don't want to go through the Tribulation, as per what they see as Fear, even though they have no clue about our faith per se in reality. I personally hate this world and would love to go be with the Master today if I could. 

There are off brand preachers that have been preaching this in their churches for years, they teach "you are different", most of the "Christians in the world are not really of God" etc etc.  Some teach the 7th Day LAWS, some are these that say the Rapture was taught by Darby types etc. etc. and their flocks are always told the same thing, you are the REAL CHURCH because you hear Gods voice they don't. Now the words and technique's vary, but its all the same, thus they come on these sites, but I rarely see them in a "Main stream Church" voicing these opinions. 

And the sad thing is they really think they are correct and of amount of reason, logic or scriptural references will work, we are blinded, they have been taught THEY SEE. 

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3 minutes ago, Davida said:

That is find but , please stop assuming that someone has come to this conclusion by listening to those preachers that you have. 

People make a huge issue out of these differing views as if it is a salvation issue and it's not & man the ones that get attacked the most brutally are those that believe in the Pre-Tribe view - and that makes me suspicious that it might just be the correct view.  But it is not any big deal in my opinion what someone's view of what is the time of the rapture-  I couldn't care less what others believe , which is why i hardly go on those threads, unless i see people launching ad hominum attacks against someone with the Pre-trib view & they need some support. 

I don't listen to preachers per se as I have been a preacher a little over 30 years, of course I do on occasion, but mostly I am doing the preaching. 

I think maybe you missed my overall thrust here, this 7th Day Law vein, the guys against the pre trib rapture all seem to go to odd churches or they don't even go to church, or they go on Saturdays.  They are being taught these things from the beginning, that is why its harder to reach them with the truth.

But I disagree, it is a huge deal any time untruths are being taught. Something far more sinister is going on somewhere. I find that if untruths are taught, its usually widespread via everything they are being taught, they not only disagree in a sub-set issue like this they disagree n everything I say. Whereas me an Daniel 11:36 (The poster) disagrees on where the Anti-Christ comes forth from, but 95 percent of other things we agree on. When you disagree with another Christian on EVERYTHING, something somewhere is not right. 

Its my job to preach the truth, so I can never say it doesn't matter. Maybe others feel different,then again maybe they are Milkmen or Carpenters. 

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Seriously speaking,there is NO defense for a rapture....

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4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Seriously speaking,there is NO defense for a rapture....

Christs church will be raptured before the tribulation as Scripture clearly teaches;

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together.

The rapture takes place before theTribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until
after the tribulation.

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The purpose of the tribulation.

(1) To purify Israel and bring them back to a place where God can fulfil the everlasting covenants made with their fathers (Isa. 2:6; 3:26; 16:1-5; 24:1-25;
26:20, 21; Ezek. 20:33, 34; 22:17-22; Rom. 11;25-29).

 

(2) To purify Israel of all rebels (Ezek. 20:33, 34; 22;17-22;  Zech. 13:8, 9; Mal. 3:3, 4).

(3) To plead with and bring Israel into bond with the new covenant (Ezek. 20:33, 34; 36:24-28; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10-13:9; mal. 4:3, 4).

(4) To Judge Israel and punish them for their rejection of the messiah and make them willing to accept Him when He comes the second time (Ezek. 20:33,34; Zech. 12:10-13:9; 14:1-15; Matt. 24:15-31).

(5) To Judge the nations for their persecution of Israel (Isa. 63:1-5; Joel 3; Rev. 6:-19:21).

(6) To bring Israel to complete repentance (Zech. 12:10-13;9 Rom. 11:26-29;  Matt. 23:39).

(7) To fulfil the prophecies of (Dan. 9:24-27; Rev. 6:1-19; 21; Matt. 24:15,29).

(8)To cause I seal to flee into the wilderness of Edom and Moab and to be so persecuted by the nations that Israel will have to turn to God for help (Isa. 16:1-5 Ezek. 20:33-35; Dan. 11:40-12:7; Hos. 2:14-17; Matt. 24:15-31; Rev. 12).

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1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Christs church will be raptured before the tribulation as Scripture clearly teaches;

Yet Christ Himself says He comes after,go figure.

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

When did He say?

Only way you can even come close to a rapture in scripture is to twist it,example from above,I rest my case!!!

 

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