Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[JesusisGod2]

Wow...I need to print off all of this stuff & read it, like...the old-fasioned way!

I was always taught post-trib! The church goes thru the trib...then the Lord comes back! That return IS the rapture....

That was the teaching back then...(in the 70's...Penticostal). I don't rmember any discussion about any other thougths on the matter.

Then as i got older....the pre-trib ideas started to take over. Not sure what happened, the Word didn't change!

I am not any more crazy about going thru the trib than anyone else...but the fact of the matter is...if you don't have Jesus...you ain't goin' anyway! If you have Jesus...to die is gain!

[Guest Matthew]

I used to be pretrib also until I started studying the word for myself instead of listening to men teach it. It opened up a whole new world for me.

Dig in guys, it looks as if we will experience the tribulation, although I believe that God will protect us and supernaturally feed us, seeing as we will not be able to buy or sell or even rent an apartment for that matter.

Amen. You have to dig in and read it for yourself, and pray as you go. Let the Spirit guide you. I do believe that we will be protected by the Lord during the trib. But to be protected, we have to be ready. We have to be strong in faith and in the Lord. We can't ride the fence between the Lord and the world.

Rev 3:10  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

God bless.

[JesusisGod2]

Praise the Lord matthew,

God will protect and keep us.

[Guest jthreesixteen]

Wow...I need to print off all of this stuff & read it, like...the old-fasioned way!

I was always taught post-trib! The church goes thru the trib...then the Lord comes back! That return IS the rapture....

That was the teaching back then...(in the 70's...Penticostal). I don't rmember any discussion about any other thougths on the matter.

Then as i got older....the pre-trib ideas started to take over. Not sure what happened, the Word didn't change!

I am not any more crazy about going thru the trib than anyone else...but the fact of the matter is...if you don't have Jesus...you ain't goin' anyway! If you have Jesus...to die is gain!

[JesusisGod2]

Wow...I need to print off all of this stuff & read it, like...the old-fasioned way!

I was always taught post-trib! The church goes thru the trib...then the Lord comes back! That return IS the rapture....

That was the teaching back then...(in the 70's...Penticostal). I don't rmember any discussion about any other thougths on the matter.

Then as i got older....the pre-trib ideas started to take over. Not sure what happened, the Word didn't change!

I am not any more crazy about going thru the trib than anyone else...but the fact of the matter is...if you don't have Jesus...you ain't goin' anyway! If you have Jesus...to die is gain!

[RCruise]

I believe it makes a difference as to which "Pentecostal" Church you attend. I attended the "Pentecostal Church of God" in Oregon in two totally different locations. Both preach "pre-trib" and that is the doctrinal stance of their headquarters in Joplin, Missouri (as I have been told anyway). I almost received my ordainment thru them until I was told that I would have to quit teaching "post-trib" stance. The pastor that told me this informed me that Joplin would remove my "license" and "pastoralship" if after a few warnings I refused to quit teaching "Post Tribulational Rapture". It caused me to seek the Lord more deeply because first I could see absolutely NO Biblically based right to "defrock" a born again man whom God had called just because of that anyway.

The Lord led me down a different direction for ordainment. I was schooled and trained in the PCof God but, am "Independent" via World Christianship. Funny thing is that I HAVE preached the Truth of Scripture in a Pentecostal Church of God since regarding the Second Coming! Also, I quit calling it "Rapture" and now call it the "First Ressurection of the Just" at the unction of the Holy Spirit. That little change has opened minds and hearts more speedily because both sides of the "Rapture issue" have to agree we cannot go until "Immediately After" that point. Then it becomes easier to point to all the abounding Scriptures that deal with the "First Ressurection" and their timing regarding signs given.

[Guest cali]

I was what you call an adamant pre-trib, that is until I started studying the Word on my own. And, I must truly say without offending anybody that there is no scripture supporting a (pre-trib or mid-trib) rapture. But there is plenty supporting a rapture or gathering after the tribulation. If the scripture does not say right out or unmistakably points to it then it's part of a delusion, because the Lord does not speak in riddles to his select.

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

It is pretty clear from the verses above that Jesus foretold all things in his parables, and he makes it known to his elect. Now if there were a cause or a reason or for that matter a rapture before or during the tribulation, don't you think God would have made it plain to us just like the following verses do.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Now the Lord is very clear about his works:Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

If Jesuschrist was tortured, beaten and humiliated, and crucified. If the Apostles and every disciple afterwards went through much tribulation, and waited with much patience, do you really think that God will have us not do as they did?

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Just like every believer went, every other believer must also. When The Day of the Lord comes, that in my understanding is when the gathering will happen. Read your Bible when the Lord talks about the Day of the Lord, (there are a bunch of references to this event in both old & new testaments) write it or paste it into a notebook or notepad toghether and you will see the picture it forms and what Jesus was talking about the mystery.>>>Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

There is nothing hard about understanding the mistery of God if you have faith and see and hear with Born Again Spiritual Eyes.

And by the way, for those who say that the Book of Revelation is written in chronological order, you must give proof to substantiate your claim, or else your adding to scripture.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Again the bible making it clear, that tribulation is part of the growth.

Rom 5:3 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us

Even tough we pass through torture, humilation, distress, persecution, you should not fear for the Lord is with you. Nothing bad can pull you away from Christ if you have faith in him. Because this flesh must be vexed and defeated in order to gain from death.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Again even in the last Book of the Bible is stated clearly and without having to look farther that this event happened after the great tribulation.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

If you are not watching for the signs then you are in a state of delusion, don't let strengh in numbers or scoofefers laugh and mocking take your love for Christ away, you are told to watch and discern so you may be ready when the Angel sounds the Trumphet. Everybody talks about one gathering but has completly forgotten the other, again read all references in the old and new testaments about the Day of the Lord and you will understand the gathering and the harvest, which (I think) happens on the last day or the Day of the Lord, but don't take my word on it, do your own study.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Mat 24:46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Again don't let your guard down or stop watching or you may take part with the evil servant.

Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There are plenty of signs already taking place, which many contribute to acts of nature, (But Nature is not a God, nor is God, nature and all things has to or respond to the Creator of all, so nature in itself cannot do without permission from the master, signs also in the Sun and Moon, distress of nations, famines and plagues, don't take men's natural explanationms for this occurances, it is God telling you to Lift your Head up for your Redemption is Near.

Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

[JesusisGod2]

Amen Cali,

I was the same way actually hoping to reinforce pre-trib, then mid-trib, I mean who wants to think we will be going through such terrible times.

But if one studies the subject, you cant help but see that it looks as if we are here for the long haul,

But Jesus will not leave nor forsake us. I also think we will see powerful manifestations of Him as we do go through it.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest dove2]

I agree. We will go through tribulationl

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I also agree that we will go through the tribulatiion. Who are we to believe that God would have Jesus make a special trip just for us. If you believe in the pre trib wouldn't that mean that Jesus would come 3 times?