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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture


George

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22 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

 

18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Give me the Bible "AND" the words IN the Bible.

Rev 21

The New Jerusalem

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God.

 

Hi BobRyan,

You yourself have posted the scriptures that show the different inheritances of the two groups.

1. The Body of Christ has been promised to sit with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21) We know that is far above all in this age & the one to come. (Eph. 1: 21) The position is illustrated by `Mount Zion` in heaven. Mount Zion was the place of rulership. Mount Zion in heaven NEVER MOVES. It is the place of Christ`s rulership over all.

2. The OT saints who looked for a city. (Heb. 11: 13 - 16) They will come down in the city, the New Jerusalem to near the earth and rule over it.

Marilyn. 

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17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi BobRyan,

You yourself have posted the scriptures that show the different inheritances of the two groups.

Literal Jews in the OT - looking for literal earthly Canaan - many of which died without ever reaching it. Yet all who trust in Christ - eternal life.

 

Post-trib:

Matthew 24

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matt 24

 

Post wrath:

1 Thess 4 "the dead in Christ rise FIRST"

Rev 21 "This is the FIRST resurrection..blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST resurrection over THESE the second death has no power"

Rev 19 is the 2nd coming - rapture and resurrection of the saints. It is after the 7 last plagues wrath of Rev 16.

 

Keys to Bible prophecy

A. All Bible timelines are contiguous -- just like Daniel 9:1-7 points out - with the 70 years of Jeremiah.

B. All apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year symbolism just like the Daniel 9 seventy week (490 day) prophecy of Daniel. .So also the 2300 days of Daniel 8, and 1260 days of Daniel 7, and Rev 11, 12,13

C. Later writers use the symbols employed by earlier writers - assuming that the reader is already informed about symbols previously explained.

 

17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

1. The Body of Christ has been promised to sit with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

True - and that happens in Rev 20:1-6 at the second coming - during the 1000 years - all the saints in heaven.

17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

2. The OT saints who looked for a city. (Heb. 11: 13 - 16) They will come down in the city, the New Jerusalem

 

That is true - all the saints will return after the 1000 years of Rev 20 and in Rev 21 we have the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.

So the saints are taken to heaven - raptured at the 2nd coming -- spend 1000 years in heaven - then at the end the New Jerusalem with the saints that have been in it for 1000 years, comes down to Earth.

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1 minute ago, BobRyan said:

Literal Jews in the OT - looking for literal earthly Canaan - many of which died without ever reaching it. Yet all who trust in Christ - eternal life.

Hi BobRyan,

Do you mean these OT saints,

`These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, they were assured of them, embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.

But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God, is not ashamed to be called their God, for He had prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 13 - 16)

Marilyn.

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7 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

So the saints are taken to heaven - raptured at the 2nd coming -- spend 1000 years in heaven - then at the end the New Jerusalem with the saints that have been in it for 1000 years, comes down to Earth.

Hi BobRyan,

So we agree that the Body of Christ will be in heaven during the millennium. Great. so many would have us return to this sinful world. However the Body of Christ will continue to rule & reign with Christ from His seat of Power and authority in the third heaven for eternity.

` To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

No scriptures to say that the Body of Christ will go anywhere else.

Marilyn.

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I think There is only one inheritance for all saved. All are one in Christ. So jews from the old covenant who have faith are under Abraham promises. 

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On Friday, July 07, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi BobRyan,

So we agree that the Body of Christ will be in heaven during the millennium. Great. so many would have us return to this sinful world. However the Body of Christ will continue to rule & reign with Christ from His seat of Power and authority in the third heaven for eternity.

` To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

No scriptures to say that the Body of Christ will go anywhere else.

Marilyn.

Also heaven and the throne of God will be on this new earth. Heaven is the city of God.  

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As some have well said Mathew twenty four sure does a wonderful job.

But here is another thing that makes it so clear that is often missed.

In second thess , the First , yes the first chapter.

The real apostles knew it was a one time event.  They also knew that is was the righteous judgment of GOD

that we suffer for the Kingom,  that we endure and are appointed unto tribulation , not to escape it.

But back to second thess chapter one.  read it slowly.   For paul writes and says

For it is the righteous judgment of GOD that ye be counted worthy of the kingdom of God  for which you also suffer

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you.

and to you who are troubled REST with us, WHEN this is key.....WHEN

the LORD JESUS shall RETURN from heaven with all his mighty angels

taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gosple

of our Lord JESUS Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the LORD and from the

glory of his power, WHEN , WHEN , WHEN he shall Come to be glorified in his saints............

A ONE TIME EVENT.   Oh their is more but this should suffice for now.

The church needs to be getting prepared in JESUS NOW to endure the coming world wide great tribulation

not making plans to escape , NO getting prepared in HIM NOW to endure this coming massive world wide tribulation.

Which comes in the name of PEACE>

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I see another debate taking place.  concerning jews and etc.

let me make something so plain that even a child can grasp it.

all the old test saints who knew GOD walked by faith in Christ .

How so , They knew torah and torah had said..........a savoir was coming who would save Israel.

their faith was in this savoir , JESUS, many waited and died waiting, TIS why JESUS would say

blessed are your eyes for they have seen what many have waited for.  The only access into even the original tree

was JESUS.  just as they had faith in the coming one , we now have faith in HE who has came.

its the same faith.   The true jews ,  had been waiting by faith for the coming messiah for generations.

torah spoke of him.  moses told of him , issiah, jeremiah.  they had faith IN JESUS already .  FAITH in Him.

as the writer of Hebrews says by faith etc, by faith etc

Their is no separate TREE.   the TREE is ONE. the branches well, they are both jew and gentile now.

Did some even know that a jew born simply after the flesh is not even a jew at all, NOT SPIRITUALLY

the children of the flesh are NOT the children of promise.

AND JESUS sure made something very clear to the JEWS who he spoke too FIRST .

THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING ......ye must be born again.   THIER IS NO RESEPCT OF PERSON with GOD

and the ONLY SAVOIR IS CHRIST ALONE.  JESUS told many unbelieving jews, ye are of your father the devil.

just as all unbelieving gentiles and jews today still are of satan, as we all once were.

THEIR IS no other name whereby a jew or gentile may be saved.   and to say so is blasphemy.

ON this last note I warn us all...flee any concept of interfaith its leading the world as one right to the man who by peach shall destroy many.

 

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Come this is HE of who MOSES SPAKE>..............yeah they did have faith in a coming savoir.

THEY KNEW IMMANUEL was coming...............they KNEW IT.

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Every plant which my Father has not planted shall be rooted up, leave them Be, said JESUS, they are the blind leading the blind.

ALL who are of the FATHER COME TO ME

ye hear not , for you are not of God, HE who is OF GOD, would love me.

Notice just like today................the high renown don't know him, nor did the high renown Pharisees of old.

Today , most would shun JESUS as being a hater.  They know neither the Father nor the SON

for he who knows and has the SON the same has the Father.  And it wont matter what you were born.  a jew or gentile

the flesh profits nothing.  Nothing.  Nothing. YE must be born again.

The only name where by any huaman being alive can be saved. 

Don't leave a jew in his own blood by saying their is another plan of salvation for him.

FOR His blood will be required at the hand of any who do so.

Their is no other way .   And no matter who comes in his name saying and kissing korans

and saying we all serve the same GOD................that saves none and all blood will be required by any who does teach this lie.

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