Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[ARGOSY]

On 7/8/2017 at 3:39 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi BobRyan,

So we agree that the Body of Christ will be in heaven during the millennium. Great. so many would have us return to this sinful world. However the Body of Christ will continue to rule & reign with Christ from His seat of Power and authority in the third heaven for eternity.

` To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

No scriptures to say that the Body of Christ will go anywhere else.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

I see that is one of your favorite subjects, the location of the saints during the millennium.  I agree with you we are located in heaven, but what do you feel about the "camp of the saints" in Jerusalem (Rev 20)? And the fact that we judge the nations here on earth during that time?  I feel we are like the angels during the millennium, with our dwelling in heaven but roles to play on earth.

In addition what do you feel about the prince of Ezekiel 45-48? If he is Jesus, then wouldn't that confuse the issue because we are supposed to be with Jesus forever yet this prince is on earth?

Edited July 13, 2017 by ARGOSY

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Hi Marilyn,

I see that is one of your favorite subjects, the location of the saints during the millennium.  I agree with you we are located in heaven, but what do you feel about the "camp of the saints" in Jerusalem (Rev 20)? And the fact that we judge the nations here on earth during that time?  I feel we are like the angels during the millennium, with our dwelling in heaven but roles to play on earth.

In addition what do you feel about the prince of Ezekiel 45-48? If he is Jesus, then wouldn't that confuse the issue because we are supposed to be with Jesus forever yet this prince is on earth?

Hi ARGOSY,

It may seem that that is my favourite subject, however it is one topic that leads to my favourite subject - Christ (His supreme Rulership) and His Eternal Purposes. You will see that in my `interests.`

Now, wow, you agree we are in heaven. That is wonderful.

1. The Camp of the saints. The word `saints` apply to OT saints, to the believers in the Body of Christ,  and to those who look to God in the tribulation and also in the millennium. To me it clearly says - `to gather them (nations) together to battle,....They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.` (Rev. 20: 8 & 9) That speaks of those in Israel, who trust God to save them.

2. The Body of Christ judging the world Systems. That will happen in the tribulation. Jesus is the Heavens High Court Judge and the Body of Christ is the court. Daniel was given a picture of this, but did not know who the heavenly court was that judged the `beast,` kingdom.

`...the court shall be seated and they shall take away his (A/C) dominion, to consume and destroy it forever.` (Dan. 7: 26)

Judgment must always come from a higher place. Thus we, the Body of Christ cannot be on the earth to declare such matters.

3. The Prince in Ezekiel, is a King called David. ` ...and my servant David shall be their Prince for ever.` (Ez. 37: 25)

 

regards, Marilyn.

 

[ARGOSY]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

It may seem that that is my favourite subject, however it is one topic that leads to my favourite subject - Christ (His supreme Rulership) and His Eternal Purposes. You will see that in my `interests.`

Now, wow, you agree we are in heaven. That is wonderful.

1. The Camp of the saints. The word `saints` apply to OT saints, to the believers in the Body of Christ,  and to those who look to God in the tribulation and also in the millennium. To me it clearly says - `to gather them (nations) together to battle,....They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.` (Rev. 20: 8 & 9) That speaks of those in Israel, who trust God to save them.

2. The Body of Christ judging the world Systems. That will happen in the tribulation. Jesus is the Heavens High Court Judge and the Body of Christ is the court. Daniel was given a picture of this, but did not know who the heavenly court was that judged the `beast,` kingdom.

`...the court shall be seated and they shall take away his (A/C) dominion, to consume and destroy it forever.` (Dan. 7: 26)

Judgment must always come from a higher place. Thus we, the Body of Christ cannot be on the earth to declare such matters.

3. The Prince in Ezekiel, is a King called David. ` ...and my servant David shall be their Prince for ever.` (Ez. 37: 25)

 

regards, Marilyn.

 

Thanks I was just curious how you reconciled that.  Isn't David among the resurrected who don't marry or have kids.  Why is David having kids during the millennium? Ez 46:16-18

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Thanks I was just curious how you reconciled that.  Isn't David among the resurrected who don't marry or have kids.  Why is David having kids during the millennium? Ez 46:16-18

Hi ARGOSY,

Very good insight there bro. Now King David, of old is in the General Assembly, (Heb. 11: 32) awaiting the New Jerusalem. The king named David is a man in Israel at the time of the Lord`s return. As you so rightly say, he has children during the millennium.

Marilyn. 

[ARGOSY]

12 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Very good insight there bro. Now King David, of old is in the General Assembly, (Heb. 11: 32) awaiting the New Jerusalem. The king named David is a man in Israel at the time of the Lord`s return. As you so rightly say, he has children during the millennium.

Marilyn. 

Interesting. Have you got any other verses that indicate a man other than the actual David or Jesus who is to take such a role? Is this going to be a dynasty of mortals, passed down from father to son during the millenium? 

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Interesting. Have you got any other verses that indicate a man other than the actual David or Jesus who is to take such a role? Is this going to be a dynasty of mortals, passed down from father to son during the millenium? 

Hi ARGOSY,

Ez. 37: 24 (as noted) `Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children`s children, for ever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever.`  

Jer. 30: 9 `But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.`

I would say that it would be a dynasty passed down as you suggested.

Marilyn.

[ARGOSY]

On 7/15/2017 at 5:51 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Ez. 37: 24 (as noted) `Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children`s children, for ever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever.`  

Jer. 30: 9 `But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.`

I would say that it would be a dynasty passed down as you suggested.

Marilyn.

What you say makes sense. Yes David is among the saved, yet this king has kids, so this indicates a new King David.  It seems a little strange that the bible did not specify the change in character though.  

To change the subject though, do you think these inhabitants of the millenium being mortal and unsaved, will have a chance at salvation? If so, the same inheritance or a limited inheritance?   We are already judged clean/saved at the resurrection because we inherit eternal bodies, and so in a sense it is the resurrection which is our victorious judgment day.  Yet Rev 20 hints that some may be found in the book of life in that later judgement.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ARGOSY

[Marilyn C]

On ‎18‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:04 PM, ARGOSY said:

What you say makes sense. Yes David is among the saved, yet this king has kids, so this indicates a new King David.  It seems a little strange that the bible did not specify the change in character though.  

To change the subject though, do you think these inhabitants of the millenium being mortal and unsaved, will have a chance at salvation? If so, the same inheritance or a limited inheritance?   We are already judged clean/saved at the resurrection because we inherit eternal bodies, and so in a sense it is the resurrection which is our victorious judgment day.  Yet Rev 20 hints that some may be found in the book of life in that later judgement.

Hi ARGOSY,

Very good and insightful question there bro.

1. Yes I believe those in the millennium will certainly have an opportunity for salvation. God`s mercy extends to all till time is no more. The revelation that they are given is that Jesus is king of Israel and also king over all God`s great created order - heaven and earth. They learn of God and His righteous ways. Thus they can obey and live accordingly under Israel`s rule or disobey and have immediate consequences. (No rain...famine, plagues etc) They will be judged at the great white throne according to their deeds, (how they obey what they were told) and their inheritance is to populate the new earth. (`The nations of the saved....` (Rev. 21: 24)

2. We, the Body of Christ are not judged, but have our names enrolled in heaven already. (Heb. 12: 23) We are changed into our immortal, incorruptible & undefiled bodies when Christ`s great love for His body draws us to Himself. We have bodies that will be for the realms above.

This is different from the other resurrections as they will be resurrected spirits and taken to the great white throne to be judged.

blessings, Marilyn.

[Reinitin]

Really interesting topic. I've studied pre-trib, mid-trib and the post trib doctrins I stayed commited to a pan-trib position for a long time. I trust the Lord however it pans out. 1 thess 5 set in my heart in an eye opening way. The Lord has prepared us for the comming of the day of destruction we wont be caught unaware when destruction comes suddenly. We are to put on our armour and do good having faith in our Lords Salvation during these times. When i face my beloved my faith will be fullfilled not something im holding on to get me through destruction that catches many unaware. I've leaned post trib But I wont fight with anyone about it because the Lord also has made clear in 1 thess how he expects us to walk as we face these things.

[ARGOSY]

On 7/20/2017 at 1:14 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Very good and insightful question there bro.

1. Yes I believe those in the millennium will certainly have an opportunity for salvation. God`s mercy extends to all till time is no more. The revelation that they are given is that Jesus is king of Israel and also king over all God`s great created order - heaven and earth. They learn of God and His righteous ways. Thus they can obey and live accordingly under Israel`s rule or disobey and have immediate consequences. (No rain...famine, plagues etc) They will be judged at the great white throne according to their deeds, (how they obey what they were told) and their inheritance is to populate the new earth. (`The nations of the saved....` (Rev. 21: 24)

2. We, the Body of Christ are not judged, but have our names enrolled in heaven already. (Heb. 12: 23) We are changed into our immortal, incorruptible & undefiled bodies when Christ`s great love for His body draws us to Himself. We have bodies that will be for the realms above.

This is different from the other resurrections as they will be resurrected spirits and taken to the great white throne to be judged.

blessings, Marilyn.

So do you believe there are two good destinies, the destiny of the saved who get our resurrection bodies. Then the destiny of the millenial righteous who are obedient during the millenium and obviously do not participate in Satan's final attack.