Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[New Member]

23 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Interesting idea, but where is scripture is that to be found? By t"that" I mean some verse or verses stating that something as major as the rapture, occurs specifically before the tribulation, or that it can occur at any time?

Also, I am curious, how your post falls under the category of what I think this thread is about: "Defense of the Post Trib Rapture", exactly how is what you said a defense of the post trib rapture?

[HAZARD]

7 minutes ago, New Member said:

Interesting idea, but where is scripture is that to be found? By t"that" I mean some verse or verses stating that something as major as the rapture, occurs specifically before the tribulation, or that it can occur at any time?

Also, I am curious, how your post falls under the category of what I think this thread is about: "Defense of the Post Trib Rapture", exactly how is what you said a defense of the post trib rapture?

Not my idea, its in the scriptures. The scriptures prove there will not be a post trib rapture to defend. 

 

Its not my idea, its written in the scriptures. The scriptures prove there will not be a Post Trib Rapture to defend.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the
just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the
tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose
for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape
the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He
said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of,
Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before
the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John
14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.
Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor.
15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to
escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things
through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul
explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or
second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air
where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present
them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

[New Member]

8 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the
just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the
tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose
for which God has saved them.

Where in scripture does it say this is the purpose of the rapture?

10 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

He
said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of,
Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before
the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John
14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.

Nice try, but it seems to me that there might be a couple of problems here. Looking at the Greek, the word escape is ἐκφεύγω ekpheúgō; from 1537 and 5343; to flee away. Running away (as Jesus said to do in Matt 24) while the part about being worthy, in Greek, is κατισχύω katisxýō; from 2596 and 2480; to overpower. It could easily mean pray that you have the strengh to run away. Additionally, there is no mention of being caught up, not rapture, that does not come from scripture, it comes from faith in a pre-trib rapture.

For a Matt 24 referance:

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

That is the convenient thing about the post trib position, one need not appeal to thing  that are not stated in scripture to make it's case.

25 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor.
15:51

I agree that 1 Cor 15:51 is the revelation of the rapture:

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

It even suggests a little about the timing. At the last trumpet. So, What is the scriptural evidence, that the last trumpet, is prior to the tribulation?

Notice also, that the dead will be raised and "we" will be changed. I imagine that we would agree, that the "we" could describe Christians, but that as far as the rapture is concerned, it did not end up including the apostle Paul. However, he is likely in the group that is the raised dead. As you know, Paul elaborated on this in another letter:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thess 4

So there clearly, unmistakably, we cannot be raptured before the ressurection of the dead, which as far as I know, has not yet happened. Still though, no at any moment or pre-trib rapture is mentioned, but that does not matter, after all, what the Bible says is not important as theories I guess here!

I'd have said more, but I am afraid this will time out. It doesn't matter though, if this is the sort of thing you have as evidence, there is no need to discuss it I suppose.

 

[Steve Conley]

6 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or
second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hazzard, you fail to recognize that there is only a second parousia, not a third coming. "Coming", when translated from the Greek word "parousia" does not refer merely to one's approach, it refers to one's arrival and continuing presence. Christ's coming (parousia) is when he comes the second time without sin unto salvation (Heb 9:28). This He does once in the future. Just as Christ's first coming was more than His conception or birth, it involved His life, ministry, vicarious death, burial, and resurrection, etc, so also will His second coming be more than His initial appearing in the clouds to reveal Himself to the world and rescue His own. It involves all the activities of the day of Christ (day of the Lord).

Paul uses the somewhat technical term "parousia" when referring to the resurrection and rapture in 1Thes 4:15.

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This arrival and continuing presence happens after the unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel that Jesus calls great tribulation.

Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Paul said that the Beast (the man of sin) would have to be revealed in the temple and the apostasia (a notable departure from the faith) would take place, before the parousia and our gathering together unto Him would happen on the day of Christ.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Jesus will be in heaven until His parousia.

Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I pray you come to understand the truth that there is only a second parousia not a third.

Hallelujah

[HAZARD]

14 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

It is your idea, but What prevails is the Word of God. Rev.5:v. 10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

***********************************

AFTER HE RETURNS WITH HIS ANGELS AND SAINTS, (US) AT THE SECOND ADVENT.

 

Do you know what is *Heaven? Tell us what is your idea on. 

*****************************************************

YES, I KNOW ALL ABOUT HEAVEN, WHERE IT IS AND WHAT IT IS. THE BIBLE IS CHOCK FULL OF SCRIPTURES DESCRIBING HEAVEN, THATS ANOTHER TOPIC ALL TOGETHER.

Isaiah 40: 21-23

21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the *heavens (several heavens) as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

Remember: Our beloved Apostle Peter prophesied, saying:

2Peter 3:v.7-13

7 But the *heavens (the first two heavens) and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the *heavens  (the first two heavens) shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,  (yea, be dissolved) what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the Cheavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new *heavens  (the third heaven is the next, the paradise) and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

To the only wise God our Saviour, through the Lord JESUS Crhist, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by HAZARD

[HAZARD]

For you, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira

Many Scriptures teach that Heaven is inhabited. (1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Matt.18:10; 22:30; 24:36; Rev. 12:12; 13:6). Armies and hosts of Heaven are mentioned an number of times as seen in these passages and in Dan. 4:35; Luke 2:13; Rev. 19:14. These inhabitants are listed in part as common angels, archangels, seraphim, cherubim and other spirit beings. Heavenly bodies are mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:48-49. Rejocing in Heaven is referred to by the inhabitants in Heaven (Ps. 96:11; 148:1, 4; Isa.44:23; Rev. 12:12). 8. Paul speaks of "the invisible things" in Heaven as being like the visible things on Earth; that is the things in Heaven are just like the things on Earth. (Rom. 1:20). The word "things" is used in many passages in referring to realities in Heaven. (Phil. 2:10; Col 1:16-20; Heb. 8:12; 9:23). We know from Scripture that in Heaven there are Cities (Rev.21), mansions (John 14:1-3), trees, rivers (Rev.22:1-3), fountains of water (Rev. 7:17), food (Ex.16:4; Ps.78:25: 105:40; John 6:31-51: Luke 22:16, 18, 30; Rev. 2:7, 17: 19:1-10; 22:1-3).

ANIMALS are mentioned as being in Heaven in these following Scriptures; (2 Kings 2:11-12; 6:13-17; Zech. 1:8-11: 6:1-8; Rev. 19:11-14, 21: Rom. 1:20).

All these things are mentioned, furniture, tongs (Isa.6:6), fire and coals (Isa. 6:6; Rev.8:5) censer and incense (Rev. 8:4-6), smoke (Rev. 8:4; 15:8), musical instruments (Rev. 5:8; 14:1-5; 15:2-4), clothes (Dan. 7:9; Rev. 1:13; 6:9-11), stones (Rev. 2:17), books (Rev. 3:5; 5:1-7; 10:1-11; 20:11-15), Also mentioned in Scripture are, vials or bowls, crowns, thunderings, lightnings, clouds, lamps, a sea of glass, singing, worship, palm trees, temples, silence, so there must also be noise at other times, trumpets, hail, mountains, keys and chains, measuring sticks, olive trees, the ark of the testament, doors, posts, girdles, pearls, diamonds and other precious stones, walls, gates, gold in abundance, streets, fruits, banquets, and many other inumerable things.

If the invisible things in the heavenlies are clearly seen by the things on Earth, as Paul taught in Rom. 1:20, then we have a right to believe that there are in Heaven the same kind of things that we have on Earth. We have no right to make an exception of any good thing that God created and intended for man to have before the fall.

And, according to scripture, Heaven is located somewhere in the Northern hemisphere. When Satan wanted to invade heaven he said; 

 

Isa. 14:13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 

 

[HAZARD]

6 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Rev. 11:v. 15 - The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev. 12:v.7-9 -  

7 And there was war in *heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon (yea, the Red Dragon); and the Dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in *heaven.

9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.  

Yea. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil (yea, the Devil, the Red Dragon - Rev.13:11-18) is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the Dragon (the Red Dragon - Rev.13:11-18) saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (the body of Christ) which brought forth the man child.

Rev. 3:v.24-29

24 But unto you I say, . . . and as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan (the Red Dragon -  Rev. 13:11-18), as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

 

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam, Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebel with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossils thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21).

. Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control until the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrine. is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:
 

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrine of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrine of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrine clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally referring to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded Heaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was all ready a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, who's kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrine, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occurred much later, did not completely destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Earth after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrine of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control until the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything miss understood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a heresy But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation after God destroyed the earth because of Lucifers rebellion..

[HAZARD]

3 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Thanks Hazard

 

But I think that you are not knowing that our conversation is in *heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

Yes, our conversation is in *heaven, surely, but we must know the warning of the Apostle Peter, as he prophesied saying that:

2Peter 3: 7 & 11-    

7  the *heavens (the first two heavens) and the earth, which are now, by the same word (Word of God) are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved  (dissolved by the fire) , what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the *heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new *heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Every living thing has a body a soul and a spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows. Animals have both feelings and knowledge although somewhat limited and on a much lower scale than that of man. Animals were not created in the likeness of God as men are. They are a lower type of life and they have souls and spirits in the sense of feelings, emotions, appetites, desires, passions, and a low form of knowledge, as can be seen in may Scriptures. If there are horses in Heaven as the Scriptures teach then there must be all kinds of animals there for Heaven is called a better place, and therefore it is sure to be as good as the Earth (Hebrews 11:10-16).

Scriptures teach that there is a difference between the natural spirit of man and the spirit of beasts (Eccl. 3:21); that there is a difference between "breath" and "spirit" (Job 34:15; Ps. 19:7; Luke 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 7:1) ; and that each creature has a separate spirit which is not a part of God (Num. 16:22; 27:17; Eccl. 3:21 ; Ezek. 21:7; Dan. 2:1-3; Mal. 2:15-16; Prov. 16:2; 1 Cor. 2:10-12; 14:32; Heb. 12:9, 23; 1 Thess. 5:23).

Eccl. 3:21 states this; "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

This suggests to me that animals which are on the Earth, not those in Heaven, that die on the Earth, their spirit remains or returns to the earth.

 

The soul is the invisible part of all living beings that feels, the seat of our emotions, affections, passions, and desires and which gives us self consciousness and makes us a sentient being (Lev. 25:43; 1 Sam. 22;2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:18; John 12:27; Heb. 10:38; Heb. 4:12).

 

Plain statements in Scripture prove the immortality of the soul. Peter said that the inner man, or the spirit of man is not corruptible: "But let it be the Hidden man of the heart, in that WHICH IS NOT CORRUPTIBLE, even the ornament of a QUIET SPIRIT, which is in the sight of God of great price(1 Peter 3:4).

In 1 Peter 4:6 it is again stated by Paul that all the dead live according to God in the spirit, proving that the inner man of every body continues in consciousness like God. We have to believe this or else believe that God in unconscious. If men after death continue to live according to God in their spirit, then they continue to be conscious like God.

We know that the soul and spirit of Christ was alive and conscious while His body was in the grave. This is proved by the fact that He went and preached to the spirits in prison during that time. Also this is clear from the fact that Christs soul went into the lower parts and into the heart of the earth (Matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7-11) and His body was put in the grave on the surface of the earth (Matt. 27:57-66). When we die, our bodies will be put into the earth and our spirt will go to Heaven to be with God. When Christ returns at His second advent with His angels and saints, (US), and puts down all rebellion we will be reunited with our bodies, only glorified and we will rule with Christ as kings and priests.

[Uriah]

On 7/12/2018 at 9:20 PM, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What does this mean? 

The kingdom of God does not come with outward appearance so that one may say: here it is or there. 

How will be the environment here on earth when the Son of man will manifest Himself and be revealed. JESUS warned us about this evil time, as is written in Luke 17: 26-34. JESUS warned us, saying: 
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage (well, its a kind of normal life today in the world of Devil, where the people go to the supermarket, and food court, bars and restaurants and hotels, steakhouses, pizzerias, fast food, nightclubs, where they also serve drinks at will, and so on),  until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Yes, the people did not believe in the preaching of Noah, and now they do not believe in the preaching of JESUS about the end of the times)

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold (gigantic sgopping malls) , they planted (gigantic agribusiness), they builded;(huh! the entire world is full of modern constructions, huge developments in building construction as in Dubai, new neighborhoods, gigantic shopping malls, and so on. The detail is that JESUS did not say that they married wives, they were given in marriage, Why? Because this is a generation of gays, a generation of sodomites)  

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. (Well, the everlasting Spirit of God is a devouring fire)

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (manifested).

31 In that day (the day is this Day, that is this seventh and last day, in which we are living), he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. (Eph.5:15-16 - 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.)

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.  (Oh yes, the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins(Mat.25:v.1), which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. v.6  At midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.
(Midnight on God's clock is exactly the transition from a millennium to a new millennium, just for example and understanding would say that in the year 2000 of Christian calendar, God's clock pointed midnight. Just for example.) 

v.10 - the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

May the Lord God bless and keep us, and give us His protection

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords

Oseas
 

Even in these verses you posted  you prove my point. I highlighted some key areas. God's people were NOT removed UNTIL God's judgment came down from above.......the SAME DAY.

[HAZARD]

11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Ok. 

But there are the 1st, 2nd, 3th heavens and the heaven of the heavens. 

So, what is/are heaven(s)? 

 

There are three Heavens mentioned in Scripture. Beside Heaven where God dwells (Gen.21:17; 22:11, 15; 2 Cor.12:1-3; Deut. 26:15; 1 Kings 8:30, 43,49) there are two other spheres called Heaven.

Paul speaks of three heavens (2 Cor. 12:1-3). The third heaven is called paradise where God dwells. The other two heavens are: the clouds (Gen. 1:8; 7:23; 8:2; Job 38:9, 34; Isa. 14:14; Jer. 51:16) and the starry, galaxy filled place between the Earth and God’s Heaven (Gen. 1:15-20; 22:17; Isa. 14:12-14; Ps. 8:3).