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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture


George

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On 4/16/2019 at 7:59 AM, The Light said:

The LAST TRUMP is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It is the right horn of the ram. The FIRST TRUMP is blown on Pentecost, it is the left horn of the ram. Paul did not need to explain what the last trump was as the Jews already understood what the last trump was. Later John comes along and writes the book of Revelation and it confuses the Gentile. The Jew was not confused.

Your argument lacks knowledge and logic.

Indeed. 

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD." - Lev 23

"'Now in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall also have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. It will be to you a day for blowing trumpets." - Num 29

"Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand; and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullam on his left hand.
Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up. Then Ezra blessed the LORD the great God. And all the people answered, "Amen, Amen!" while lifting up their hands; then they bowed low and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground." - Neh 8 (Not a single trump is mentioned here on the first day of the 7th month)

This is all there is from the mouth of the Lord concerning this; anything else is just tradition of men and false according to the Most High God. Incidentally there is much to learn about proper preaching and understanding  from Neh 8.

On 4/16/2019 at 7:59 AM, The Light said:

Totally agree. Your problem is that arguments that you correctly use against those that believe in a pretribulation rapture don't work against someone that understands that there is both a pretib rapture and post trib (pre wrath) rapture.

 It's more of a work around not understanding. There is no real evidence of the pre-trib rapture as it's built from false assumptions out of fear of the things that are coming. 

But you go ahead and hold on to your hope just remember what I said as written; the beast comes first then the one and only rapture.

 

On 4/16/2019 at 7:59 AM, The Light said:

The holy spirit is more prevalent in the west. Do you need further explanation?

It's more defensive than reasonable conclusion. If you are suggesting you have special insight that no one else has you are fooling yourself. If you have proof of this condition you should post it. It's my belief you are of the opinion that your detractors must prove your statements wrong as opposed to you offering proof of your position eg.,

"Unicorns are real, prove me wrong."

Further, your statement as fact is godlike in nature as mortal man cannot possibly 'know' this is the case. Why do you allow your own words to shame you?

On 4/16/2019 at 7:59 AM, The Light said:

Your argument falls apart when we get to the bold.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

If I get your meaning you are connecting the two in time and space. Perhaps, except for the problem you have with 'escape all these things', which DOES NOT mean 'to be taken off the earth to be with the Lord in a secret rapture not in scripture and no one has ever heard of, before the western church has to do without all their nice things".

 

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:
Quote

I could be wrong here, but it seems that you are saying believers today are likened to the to the Goodman and to him, them, they will not know the 'when'.

Does that not give you cause for concern when reading:

"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."     - 1 Thess 5

It looks like the only ones who are overtaken as if by a thief are those in darkness. Are you saying the church is in darkness?

No cause for concern whatsoever. Paul is talking to the brethren telling them that the day of the Lord, the day of His wrath has not begun. The day of His wrath will not take the believer unaware. And yet the Goodman will not know when He is coming. Just more proof that the pretribulation rapture will occur as He comes before any seals are opened as we can see in Rev 5 with the 24 elders speaking for those taken out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation.


 

Quote

 

Raptured to heaven then gathered from heaven? I have heard this before and find no scriptural support for such a thing. 

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." - Mark 13

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." -Matt 24

I see where some get it but it's a twisted conclusion.  Neither verse says 'from the heaven to where they have been raptured, where God dwells'. This is speaking to one group, the elect, that is to be gathered from everywhere. It's only the elect that is rounded up from the winds to the end of heaven and earth, there is no other group here, just the elect. The idea "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." just means from everywhere which the single group will be gathered. It's not two groups, one from the earth and the one from heaven.

 

Yes, God is speaking to one group, the elect. We can clearly see the He calls the Church, the elect. We can also clearly see that He calls Israel, the elect. We know that He gathers the elect from heaven and earth. We can see the Church in heaven in Rev 5. We can also clearly see 144,000 first fruits which guarantees a harvest of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth.  One group, the elect are gathered from heaven (the Church that is in heaven via the pretrib rapture and the earth (the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth) that are gathered after the tribulation, before the wrath of God.

Quote

Yes. How about the burden of proof is on the one making the claim? Since you brought it up, defend it or I have to assume you don't really believe it.

I have already defended it. God says that blindness in part happens until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. We see that the Church is in heaven in Rev 5. After this occurs we see that the seals are opened. The seals are the tribulation as we can see in Matt 24. We also see the 144,000 first fruits WHICH GUARANTEES A HARVEST, and that harvest can be determined by the first fruits. It's all pretty simple if you just read what the Word says and don't get sidetracked by making false conclusions.

Quote

 

No, we don't, as I have shown above. There is no such thing as separate ethnic groups when it comes to salvation.

There is no pretrib rapture as Paul explains in 2 Thess 2:1-8. The beast rises and the church falls away before Jesus comes and the gathering occurs. 

 

Rom 11

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There will be a pretribulation rapture as the Goodman will not know when He is coming, but after the tribulation there will be signs given to the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. That day won't take them unawares. They are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

 

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's interesting we don't see any one of the Apostles encouraging us to look to traditions of any man, Jew or Gentile, for the truth of Jesus Christ and kingdom of heaven.

The opposite is true.

"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” He answered and said to them, 'Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 
' This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." He said to them, "
All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. " - Mark 7

"knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. " - 1 Peter 1

"But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"' (that is, a gift to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." - Mark 7

"Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 
" These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as 
doctrines the commandments of men.
"

 

Lev 23

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.

13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.

17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.

18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the Lord, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the Lord.

19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the Lord for the priest.

21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.

29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.

35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.

39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days.

41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:

43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.

 

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8 hours ago, Diaste said:

A deliberate obfuscation, and so ridiculous it deserves no consideration. I can see how the truth of many things in scripture elude some.

I do believe you will understand timing in all this very soon, if we are alive when it all begins.

Make no mistake, the beast is coming for the church, to purify the congregation, then and only then will the Lord come to stop the beast and gather us to him. Pray you are worthy to endure to the end as we are called to; bring oil and get ready.

The reason that it deserves no consideration is because you are totally stumped. You want to proclaim that there is neither Jew nor Greek. You want to proclaim that the Church has replaced Israel. You want to use the " there is neither Jew nor Greek" part but you are totally confused about the male nor female part.

In reality there is neither Jew nor Greek ONCE THEY ARE IN THE KINGDOM. Until then, there is both Jew and Greek and male and female. The Church has not replaced Israel.

You can tell me that I should pray to endure to the end, but I'll just say, Jesus says to pray that your are worthy to escape and stand before the son of man.

Edited by The Light
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8 hours ago, Diaste said:
Quote

Indeed. 

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD." - Lev 23

"'Now in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall also have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. It will be to you a day for blowing trumpets." - Num 29

"Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand; and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullam on his left hand.
Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up. Then Ezra blessed the LORD the great God. And all the people answered, "Amen, Amen!" while lifting up their hands; then they bowed low and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground." - Neh 8 (Not a single trump is mentioned here on the first day of the 7th month)

And yet no mention that the Paul did not have to clarify what the last trump was. And no mention that what you consider the last trump was not even written about until 95AD. Yes, it is Jewish tradition that there is a 1st trump, a last trump and a great trump that are blown on specific days. This is exactly why Paul did not have to explain what the last trump was.

 

 

 

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On 4/21/2019 at 4:11 AM, Diaste said:

 It's more of a work around not understanding. There is no real evidence of the pre-trib rapture as it's built from false assumptions out of fear of the things that are coming. 

You have to work around not seeing a pretrib rapture. For instance you have to work around the 24 elder in Rev 5. I guess you just pretend those verses aren't there. You have to work around who is being gathered from heaven and earth. Do you just pretend that there is no gathering from heaven and earth. You have to work around the 144,000 first fruits proving that there is a harvest of the 12 tribes. You have to work around Jesus saying you can escape ALL THESE THINGS THAT WILL COME TO PASS and stand before the son of man. He doesn't say you have to go through all these things and endure all these things. You have to look past Jesus saying that blindness in part happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. You have to look past Jesus saying how much more their fullness. The list continues. If you don't read what the Word says, I guess you could work past it.

 

Quote

But you go ahead and hold on to your hope just remember what I said as written; the beast comes first then the one and only rapture.

Matt 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

Quote

 

It's more defensive than reasonable conclusion. If you are suggesting you have special insight that no one else has you are fooling yourself. If you have proof of this condition you should post it. It's my belief you are of the opinion that your detractors must prove your statements wrong as opposed to you offering proof of your position eg.,

"Unicorns are real, prove me wrong."

 

You got it all wrong. I asked you "Got an alternative theory that has any context, knowledge or logic?" I already knew that you couldn't provide an answer that had any context, knowledge or logic, because I already provided that answer. And that proved to be correct. Secondly, I only read what the scripture says. People seem to have a problem believing what scripture says because they can't get it through their head that God will do what He says. There's a reason that there are 24 elders before the throne obviously speaking for others, declaring that they were taken out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation. Why is it so many cannot accept His word. The church is not Israel, the church is in heaven (at the time of the 6th seal), just like it says. You can accept what the word says or reject it.

As for unicorns, it's just like the pertribulation rapture. I'm not asking you to prove me wrong. I'm asking you to read what the word says, and accept it. Here, I'm telling you that unicorns are real. I will provide the scriptures. You can accept it or come up with your own theory. I'll go with what the Word says, just like the pretribulation rapture.

Num 23

22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

Num 24

God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

Deu 33

17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

Job 39

Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

Job 39

10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

Psalm 22

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

Psalm 29

He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.

Psalm 92

10 But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.

Isaiah 34

And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

 

Quote
Quote

Further, your statement as fact is godlike in nature as mortal man cannot possibly 'know' this is the case. Why do you allow your own words to shame you?

All I have done is post scripture and believed what it says. The fact that you can't accept what the Word says is on you, not me. You think that the church is Israel and I posted a few scriptures that prove this is not true. The fact that you don't believe the truth is on you. God even gives you warning, but it goes right over your head and you believe what is taught to you and disregard what is written.

Rom 11

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

Quote

If I get your meaning you are connecting the two in time and space. Perhaps, except for the problem you have with 'escape all these things', which DOES NOT mean 'to be taken off the earth to be with the Lord in a secret rapture not in scripture and no one has ever heard of, before the western church has to do without all their nice things".

You obviously have placed your belief in what has been taught to you and not is what the Word says. I recommend you pay attention to your instruction from God and not your instruction from men. Here's Gods instruction to you.

Matt 24

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

BTW, unicorns are real. You can accept what is written or believe what you choose to.

 

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On 4/21/2019 at 8:05 AM, The Light said:

Lev 23

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.

13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.

17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.

18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the Lord, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the Lord.

19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the Lord for the priest.

21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.

29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.

35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.

39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days.

41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:

43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.

 

Those are the commands of the Lord God, not traditions of men. Another example of forcing scripture to say what one desires instead of hearing.

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On 4/21/2019 at 12:22 PM, The Light said:

And yet no mention that the Paul did not have to clarify what the last trump was. And no mention that what you consider the last trump was not even written about until 95AD. Yes, it is Jewish tradition that there is a 1st trump, a last trump and a great trump that are blown on specific days. This is exactly why Paul did not have to explain what the last trump was.

Paul did not have to explain because he was speaking of the future not the past. Paul also taught we should not rely on tradition, that Christ and the resurrection is our future hope and it's not based on the past.

It's doesn't matter when the Revelation was given to John, Paul and John both heard from the same Spirit and the same Lord, Paul knew about the last trump because he heard it from Jesus himself, remember the road to Damascus? And if Paul and John were referencing different trumps, and if Paul was referring to some old Jewish tradition then they contradict each other and Paul contradicts his own words.

You'll see. Such an HOUR as you think not could be any hour of any day of any year throughout time. Consider, "...such an hour as ye think not..." You are thinking it must come before certain events when the words of our Lord specify it will not come as you think, or when. 

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15 hours ago, Diaste said:

Paul did not have to explain because he was speaking of the future not the past. Paul also taught we should not rely on tradition, that Christ and the resurrection is our future hope and it's not based on the past.

It's doesn't matter when the Revelation was given to John, Paul and John both heard from the same Spirit and the same Lord, Paul knew about the last trump because he heard it from Jesus himself, remember the road to Damascus? And if Paul and John were referencing different trumps, and if Paul was referring to some old Jewish tradition then they contradict each other and Paul contradicts his own words.

You'll see. Such an HOUR as you think not could be any hour of any day of any year throughout time. Consider, "...such an hour as ye think not..." You are thinking it must come before certain events when the words of our Lord specify it will not come as you think, or when. 

Hello Diaste,

                   I think that Paul was quoting from  (and summarizing) form Isaiah 27:1- n that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. And if you go to the end of the same chapter you can see: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

So since there were no chapters when written, we can go back a bit to see Isaiah writing about: 26:19- Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Therefore we have a clearer picture of a resurrection coinciding with the punishment of the dragon etc. pertaining to Paul's eschatology and the understanding of it as given to him by God.

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On 5/3/2019 at 7:05 PM, Uriah said:

Hello Diaste,

                   I think that Paul was quoting from  (and summarizing) form Isaiah 27:1- n that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. And if you go to the end of the same chapter you can see: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

So since there were no chapters when written, we can go back a bit to see Isaiah writing about: 26:19- Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Therefore we have a clearer picture of a resurrection coinciding with the punishment of the dragon etc. pertaining to Paul's eschatology and the understanding of it as given to him by God.

Good morning Uriah,

I agree. However, Paul says 'last trump'. Only one last trump I know of and that's the 7th trump of Revelation. Paul had insight to the future as Isaiah does not mention a 'last trump' but a 'great trumpet'. Given the rest of the evidence in Isaiah 26-27 I would concur both chapters are end of the age at the time of Jesus 2nd coming, the resurrection of His people, the defeat of the armies of the beast, and the capture of Satan.

Doesn't change the fact that 'last trump' has nothing to to do Jewish tradition surrounding the celebration of trumps in Lev 23 and everything to do with a real 'last trump' from the only series of trumps so recorded in scripture.

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