Guest onehope Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hi everyone- I'm new to this board, but not new to post trib. John 6: 39,40,44,54 say that EVERYONE who believes on the son of God will be resurrected at the Last Day. If a person believes that the dead in Christ must rise first then it is apparent that there can be no rapture before the resurrection of the dead takes place. If the resurrection happens on the Last Day how then could there be a rapture before that? Answer: There couldn't. Have a nice day. There is a lot more to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onehope Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 In order for the Pre -trib rapture to be true John 6 has to be false. It says 4 times that those who believe on Christ will be raised on the last day. It is a given that there has to be a resurrection before the rapture takes place. If that resurrection doesn't happen before the last day, then there is no rapture before then either. Pretty simple, but you won't get much response concerning the Last Day r esurrection in John 6 from the PT people- they have their own prophets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest br.biff Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I must admit I skipped ahead on this thread after reading many pages. However forgive me if this has already been brought up.The word says that noone not even the Son knows the exact day. Also it says that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. It also says he who now letteth will let till he be taken out of the way. A good source for pre trib. Don't bite my head here but if the church is ratured or taken out of the way then anti-christ will be free to do as he pleases. Claiming the rature was his doing thereby deceiving the world to follow him. Just a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 The word says that none not even the Son knows the exact day. Technically, it says that Jesus did not know, at the time He was speaking. I presume, now that He has resumed the fullness of His diety, that being omniscient, He knows now. Nothing it that passage, necessitates, that this would never be revealed to those He chose. However, I must agree that the scriptures do not seem to present any dates. Now, being a bit over analytical here, but is not knowing the day or hour, the same as not knowing the week month, year or century? He did say we would know when it was near, if we watched the signs, and also, it should be noted, that not knowing the exact time, is not the same as not knowing the sequence of events. It is the sequence, the order in which things happen, that we are examining, not the date the scheduled events will take place. Also it says that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Indeed! And the proof of that will be when the church is reunited with her Lord, and Satan is dispatched to the lake of fire. It also says he who now letteth will let till he be taken out of the way. A good source for pre trib. Now that one, you will have to explain what you think that means, why you think it, and how it relates. Don't bite my head here but if the church is raptured or taken out of the way then anti-christ will be free to do as he pleases. Claiming the rapture was his doing thereby deceiving the world to follow him. Just a possibility. I'll try not to bite, hard anyway! Seems to me, that the church is here, and antichrist pretty much has his way anyway. Revelation 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 16: 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 17: 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Having been an observer of public education, journalism, and election cycles in my country, I am convinced that mass deception, is not that difficult. Never-the-less, quoting the same passage you mentioned,I also observe this: 7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. May God richly bless your efforts, as you keep your nose in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted March 6, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2006 My defense of the post-trib rapture: In summary, I cannot argue with these verses- 2 Thessalonians 2:1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertcry Posted March 7, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 35 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/13/1976 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I'm not sure if anyone is going to see this but I wrote an article regarding why I believe in the post-trib position. Here it is if anyone is interested. Don't Miss The Rapture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfromnz Posted March 8, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/05/1953 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Wow...I need to print off all of this stuff & read it, like...the old-fasioned way! I was always taught post-trib! The church goes thru the trib...then the Lord comes back! That return IS the rapture.... That was the teaching back then...(in the 70's...Penticostal). I don't rmember any discussion about any other thougths on the matter. Then as i got older....the pre-trib ideas started to take over. Not sure what happened, the Word didn't change! I am not any more crazy about going thru the trib than anyone else...but the fact of the matter is...if you don't have Jesus...you ain't goin' anyway! If you have Jesus...to die is gain! In any case...I think we are close to the trib...so i suppose we'll be finding out! very thought proking indeed The more I read scripture the more conclusions i come to is When jesus comes is when he comes but The church in Russia has suffard for Christ as has the chineese and lots of christians in muslem countrys so why not the west as well alfromnz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookfortruth Posted March 20, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 9 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1957 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thank you WhySoBlind, I also share this insight. You presented this well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Wow, a dead subject since March of 2006? Maybe the rapture has already happened, and I missed it! I might have to come back in here and stir up trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metin Posted December 22, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 15 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2006 reasons why i believe the rapture will not occur unitll after the great tribulation:- 1) The words used: These words are parousia (literally, presence), apokalypsis (revelation), and epiphaneia (appearance). First, the word parousia. In I Thessalonians 4:15 Paul uses parousia to describe what pretribulationists would call the rapture. But in I Thessalonians 3:13 the same word is used to describe the "coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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