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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

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16 hours ago, Diaste said:
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As explained in a earlier post the escape is not from the death of the body but the temptation of the pressure of the mark, the taking of which will most likely doom a person to eternal death. It's a spiritual escape from the mark and the deception of the beast and the false prophet, as well as the dragon. It seems that we should be able to flee from the assault on our minds and belief and a physical fleeing from the war for our souls, if we pray and are found worthy. 

I never understand the pre-trib epistemology when it comes to this. What makes the adherents believe they are some super righteous group exempt from any trouble? Especially since our Lord endured terrible treatment and a horrible death, as did the apostles, as did the prophets of the OT. And what of the 100,000 believers that die each year for the name of Jesus Christ and for the testimony they hold?

Where is their pre-trib rapture?

Your questions just gave the answers. The 100,000 believers that die each year should be enough proof. Now and the last 2000 years has been mostly about Gentiles. The exception was Jesus being sent to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came along and Peter got the word from the Lord to accept the Gentiles that the Gentiles were ministered to. The pretribulation rapture brings in the fullness of the Gentiles. Soon after that the 70th week will start and God will turn his attention to His people. Then at the end of the 70th week the post tribulation rapture will occur. As we can see by the 144,000 first fruits, the harvest will be the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. It's really just all about Gods plan, which He tells us about.

 

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There are none. All we see are facts of the gathering in the so called pre-trib rapture verses in the NT. There is only one gathering that is described in full and that is after the GT.

The verses and timing are everywhere and yet you see nothing. The word says "seek and you will find" Are you seeking? Or have you turned a blind eye. God already tells you are not going to know when He comes and yet He tells us exactly when he will come. Two different events. Two different people, Gentiles and Jews. THAT'S WHY NO ONE CAN FIGURE IT OUT. One group, Gentiles, He says, SUMMER IS NIGH. One group of people, the Jews in the nation of Israel He says pray that your flight be not in the winter.

Here we see the secret pretrib rapture in the early summer. Here's your timing.

Song of Solomon 2

The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

 

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Any other pre-trib rapture verse is just details of the gathering in the Gospels and lacks timing, except for 2 Thess 2:1-8. This passage clearly says the coming and gathering occur after the revealing of the beast,  and at the same time refutes in toto the pre-trib rapture lie.

Like I said, understanding that there is a post trib rapture sure doesn't prove that there will not be a pre trib rapture.  The pre trib rapture is certainly no lie. If you knew nothing else, the feasts of Israel should tell you there is both a pretrib and post trib rapture.

 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

The redemption is through the blood and at the same time we were made kings and priests; "and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood" does not mean "has redeemed us to God through a pre-trib rapture."

The redemption to God here is through the shed blood when our sins were forgiven and we were made new creatures; it has nothing whatsoever to do with a fake rapture.

I'm pretty sure you got the point I made.

That's an interesting supposition. It's not analogous as there is no such idea in the passage in question. 

You'll see at some point in the future. The beast will come first and there will be no pretrib rapture. Best pray and be ready for battle.

The battle is now. I suggest that you do as instructed. Watch and be ready, for in an hour that you think not, the son of man cometh.

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On 4/14/2019 at 6:15 PM, HAZARD said:

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, , in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51.

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." - 1 Cor 15

What you are saying is that the last trump will sound before the first trump, or there are two 'last trumps'.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Cor 15

Over what then would this victory come? Traffic jams? Slow Wi-Fi? 

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the first fruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him."

Seems apt to think Paul was talking about the instant change we will experience at His coming and at the last trumpet, since Paul does mention both of those things in this chapter. Paul's conclusion here is that 1 Cor 15:51-52 occur at Jesus' coming and at the last trump; both of which occur at or near to the 6th seal.

A hundred thousand people around the world die every year for Jesus. Where is their rapture? Or is the rapture just for white, western, affluent, Christian churches? 

Luke said we would be counted worthy to flee, not be taken off the earth, if we sincerely prayed for protection. 'To escape' does not hold the meaning; "Jesus is going to come secretly and take all of us from this earth and transport us to heaven in the the twinkling of the eye."

In fact 'to escape' in Luke 21 is this idea;

ekpheugó: to flee away

Original Word: ἐκφεύγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ekpheugó
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-fyoo'-go)
Definition: to flee away
Usage: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

The individual is running away from whatever it is they are confronted with. But I don't think this is restricted to a physical flight and is also a spiritual fleeing from the deception of the beast and the FP and the mark. Will we be counted worthy to steel our minds and reject the strong pull to heed the beast and take the mark to save our flesh? That is what we need to be counted worthy to escape individually.

 

 

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20 hours ago, The Light said:

Your questions just gave the answers. The 100,000 believers that die each year should be enough proof. Now and the last 2000 years has been mostly about Gentiles. The exception was Jesus being sent to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came along and Peter got the word from the Lord to accept the Gentiles that the Gentiles were ministered to. The pretribulation rapture brings in the fullness of the Gentiles. Soon after that the 70th week will start and God will turn his attention to His people. Then at the end of the 70th week the post tribulation rapture will occur. As we can see by the 144,000 first fruits, the harvest will be the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. It's really just all about Gods plan, which He tells us about.

You do know dispensationalism is a farce? It's always been by grace from the time of Abraham. There is no such thing as Jew or Gentile. There are only the saved and the unsaved, those in Christ and those who are not.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
There is no separation, only false doctrine creates division where there is none.
 
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
It does not matter if we are a Jew or Gentile, it's the same Spirit. Jews are not more or less than the Gentiles, the determining factor is salvation by the blood of the lamb and the guidance and power of the Spirit, not national lineage.
 

Read Romans 11 for the full story.

 

21 hours ago, The Light said:

God already tells you are not going to know when He comes and yet He tells us exactly when he will come. 

Well, not really. He says we will we see the times as they approach, we will not know the hour and the day of his return. Your argument is flat.

 

21 hours ago, The Light said:

Two different events. Two different people, Gentiles and Jews. 

Read Romans 11 then understand there are NOT two groups. All who are in Christ are the seed of Abraham. (Gal 3:29) That means we are in the same group as Moses, Abraham, Elijah, Isaac, and Jacob, who is Israel.

21 hours ago, The Light said:

 THAT'S WHY NO ONE CAN FIGURE IT OUT. 

No, that's why you struggle.

21 hours ago, The Light said:

One group, Gentiles, He says, SUMMER IS NIGH. One group of people, the Jews in the nation of Israel He says pray that your flight be not in the winter.

"Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:"

Jesus is speaking to whomever will hear in this portion of Matt. It's an assumption that all of the above is for the Jews only, and a weak proposition at that. The scripture says, "Let them which be in Judea..."

Lets look at that. Are you assuming only Jews live in Judea? That would be wrong. Lots of foreigners live there from many countries and not all are Jews. Scripture says, "Let THEM which be in Judea..." this has to include everyone and anyone in the region which extends from just north of Jerusalem south to the Negev and includes parts the West Bank and then west to the Sea. Jesus is not referencing a specific nationality here and so likewise he is not referencing any specific nationality when He says, "on the housetop not come down, which is in the field return and, your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day."  Jesus would not mention the Sabbath specifically after the other warnings if this was just about the Jews, Jesus is including everyone in Judea; Jews, Christians, Muslims, tourists, foreign nationals, exchange students, etc. Just as an aside the owner of this site is in the Negev, should he not be able to flee? 

21 hours ago, The Light said:

Like I said, understanding that there is a post trib rapture sure doesn't prove that there will not be a pre trib rapture.  The pre trib rapture is certainly no lie. If you knew nothing else, the feasts of Israel should tell you there is both a pretrib and post trib rapture.

True, what proves there is no pre-trib rapture is evidence to the contrary and the refutation contained in the very verses used to exploit a false doctrine.

Look to Jewish tradition if you wish, it will not help.

The beast will rise first and no one will be going anywhere.

You'll see, pray to be ready for the war.

 

 

 

 
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On 4/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, The Light said:

We see a group of people that are told that that day will not take them unaware.  And yet we see that the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming. As usual, there is a reason for that contradiction.

"42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." 

Nothing like your allusion.

 

Yep, exactly.  And yet there is a specific language on who will be harvested at the post tribulation rapture. That would be the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth as proven by 144,000 first fruits. Additionally there are plenty of ways to tell that there will be a pretrib rapture.

Indeed there is and your proposition is incorrect.

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

" And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

"...but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. " Interestingly this rapture verse refers to the 7th trump, post-trib. It's all of us, that are taken as we are the elect, to wit:

 

And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.
Now certainly this cannot be the 144,000 alone. I'm pretty sure they will be taken alive and so this would have to be living male virgins from near the time of Jesus return. The apostles here are speaking to the members of the churches and calling them ELECT, Peter even speaking to a woman with children. Meaning the elect are the dead in Christ as well as the living and will not be resurrected till the last trump sounds and not before.

 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, The Light said:

The word says that Israel will be blind until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. When the pretribulation rapture occurs Israel will become jealous and there eyes will be opened.

Rom 11

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There would have to be evidence that 'fullness of the Gentiles' equates to a rapture, and there is not.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, The Light said:

Because God says that the salvation of the Gentiles provokes Israel to jealously. I only believe what the Word is saying and He says that we will not know when the master is coming. The twelve tribes and the gleanings of the Gentiles are told to look up their redemption draws nigh. Two different circumstances.

So salvation is now equal to the rapture? That's just....

We know the general time of His return , not the specific day and hour. We are not privy to the DAY AND HOUR, but we can know the year, the month and perhaps the week. It seems that the month would be as close as we could come. In any case there will be no rapture till after the revealing of the beast at the midpoint.

 

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3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The individual is running away from whatever it is they are confronted with. But I don't think this is restricted to a physical flight and is also a spiritual fleeing from the deception of the beast and the FP and the mark. Will we be counted worthy to steel our minds and reject the strong pull to heed the beast and take the mark to save our flesh? That is what we need to be counted worthy to escape individually.

This is what it all boils down to.  It is a direct reflection of our faith, our lifestyle worship of God.

Last trumpet on the last day.  Endurance.  Perseverance.  Extra oil.

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7 hours ago, Diaste said:
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"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." - 1 Cor 15

What you are saying is that the last trump will sound before the first trump, or there are two 'last trumps'.

When Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthians why did he not write another letter to the Corinthians to explain himself. Why didn't he say something like, "Hey, a lot of you have been asking what the last trump is. Don't worry, I think around 95AD the apostle John is going to have a revelation and he will write it down and explain what the last trump is." The Jews did not have to ask what the last trump is, as they knew that it is blown of the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah).

The LAST TRUMP is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It is the right horn of the ram. The FIRST TRUMP is blown on Pentecost, it is the left horn of the ram. Paul did not need to explain what the last trump was as the Jews already understood what the last trump was. Later John comes along and writes the book of Revelation and it confuses the Gentile. The Jew was not confused.

Your argument lacks knowledge and logic.

 

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"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the first fruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him."

Exactly. The Gentile at the 1st trump and the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth at the last trump. The remnant of the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God, IN A PLACE OF PROTECTION. Non of Gods people are appointed to His wrath.

 

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Seems apt to think Paul was talking about the instant change we will experience at His coming and at the last trumpet, since Paul does mention both of those things in this chapter. Paul's conclusion here is that 1 Cor 15:51-52 occur at Jesus' coming and at the last trump; both of which occur at or near to the 6th seal.

Totally agree. Your problem is that arguments that you correctly use against those that believe in a pretribulation rapture don't work against someone that understands that there is both a pretib rapture and post trib (pre wrath) rapture.

 

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A hundred thousand people around the world die every year for Jesus. Where is their rapture? Or is the rapture just for white, western, affluent, Christian churches?

The holy spirit is more prevalent in the west. Do you need further explanation?

 

Quote

 

Luke said we would be counted worthy to flee, not be taken off the earth, if we sincerely prayed for protection. 'To escape' does not hold the meaning; "Jesus is going to come secretly and take all of us from this earth and transport us to heaven in the the twinkling of the eye."

In fact 'to escape' in Luke 21 is this idea;

ekpheugó: to flee away

Original Word: ἐκφεύγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ekpheugó
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-fyoo'-go)
Definition: to flee away
Usage: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

The individual is running away from whatever it is they are confronted with. But I don't think this is restricted to a physical flight and is also a spiritual fleeing from the deception of the beast and the FP and the mark. Will we be counted worthy to steel our minds and reject the strong pull to heed the beast and take the mark to save our flesh? That is what we need to be counted worthy to escape individually.

 

Your argument falls apart when we get to the bold.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

 

Edited by The Light

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:
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You do know dispensationalism is a farce?

I know that God is all about timing. In His timing the fullness of the Gentiles will be come in. In His timing, the scales will come off the Jews eyes. In His timing, there will be natural branches regrafted onto the olive tree.

 

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It's always been by grace from the time of Abraham. There is no such thing as Jew or Gentile. There are only the saved and the unsaved, those in Christ and those who are not.

In His timing, there will be no Jew or Gentile.

 

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Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
There is no separation, only false doctrine creates division where there is none.


 
In His timing, there will be neither Jew nor Greek. Has that time occurred yet? Let me ask you, since the word says that there is neither male nor female are you saying that it is OKAY in Gods eyes for a man to marry another man and have relations? The problem replacement theology has is that everything is taken out of context to arrive at an incorrect conclusion. So again, let me ask you, since the word says there is neither Jew nor Greek and neither male nor female, is it okay for a man to marry another man in Gods eyes?
 
 
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For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
It does not matter if we are a Jew or Gentile, it's the same Spirit. Jews are not more or less than the Gentiles, the determining factor is salvation by the blood of the lamb and the guidance and power of the Spirit, not national lineage.

Read Romans 11 for the full story.

I did read the full story. Here.

Rom 11

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

It's all about timing and God will keep his word.

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3 hours ago, Diaste said:
 
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Read Romans 11 then understand there are NOT two groups. All who are in Christ are the seed of Abraham. (Gal 3:29) That means we are in the same group as Moses, Abraham, Elijah, Isaac, and Jacob, who is Israel.

Then why the need to regraft the natural branches? It's all about timing.

 
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True, what proves there is no pre-trib rapture is evidence to the contrary and the refutation contained in the very verses used to exploit a false doctrine.

I have not seen any of this so called evidence. I have only seen a bunch of things taken out context and lacking knowledge. His people perish because of lack of knowledge.

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Look to Jewish tradition if you wish, it will not help.

If you don't have any understanding of the Jewish feasts, you won't have much understanding what is to come.

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The beast will rise first and no one will be going anywhere.

You'll see, pray to be ready for the war.

 

Rev 3

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:
2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Indeed there is and your proposition is incorrect.

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

" And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

"...but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. " Interestingly this rapture verse refers to the 7th trump, post-trib. It's all of us, that are taken as we are the elect, to wit:

Even more interesting is that we see people being gathered from both earth and heaven. Those gathered from the earth will include the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth as proven by the 144,000 1st fruits, which guarantees a harvest of the 12 tribes. Those gathered from heaven will be the dead in Christ and the alive Church that was removed from the earth in the pretribulation rapture. See Rev 5 for those that have been gathered out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:
2 hours ago, Diaste said:
 
Quote

 

It's all of us, that are taken as we are the elect, to wit:
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

 

 
 
 
Isaiah 45

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 
Quote

Now certainly this cannot be the 144,000 alone. I'm pretty sure they will be taken alive and so this would have to be living male virgins from near the time of Jesus return. The apostles here are speaking to the members of the churches and calling them ELECT, Peter even speaking to a woman with children. Meaning the elect are the dead in Christ as well as the living and will not be resurrected till the last trump sounds and not before.

The elect are both the Gentile Church that are gathered from heaven because they have been raptured there and the 12 tribes that are gathered from earth along with the gleanings of the Gentiles.

 

Quote

There would have to be evidence that 'fullness of the Gentiles' equates to a rapture, and there is not.

Got an alternative theory that has any context, knowledge or logic?
 

Quote


So salvation is now equal to the rapture? That's just....

 

Matt 24

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Do you think that verse means that if Jesus did not shorten the days and return, there would be no one left alive on earth?

The 12 tribes will understand when the Gentile church has been caught up.

 

 

Quote

We know the general time of His return , not the specific day and hour. We are not privy to the DAY AND HOUR, but we can know the year, the month and perhaps the week. It seems that the month would be as close as we could come. In any case there will be no rapture till after the revealing of the beast at the midpoint.

The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will be very aware of the timing of His coming. That day will not take them unaware. The man of sin will be revealed. There will be signs of the sun, moon and stars and their tribulation, the 70th week will be over. They will be looking up, their redemption will be drawing nigh. They will be waiting for the last trump. As for the Church, the goodman will not know what watch the thief will come. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Best be ready for the first trump.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." - 1 Cor 15

What you are saying is that the last trump will sound before the first trump, or there are two 'last trumps'.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Cor 15

Over what then would this victory come? Traffic jams? Slow Wi-Fi? 

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the first fruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him."

Seems apt to think Paul was talking about the instant change we will experience at His coming and at the last trumpet, since Paul does mention both of those things in this chapter. Paul's conclusion here is that 1 Cor 15:51-52 occur at Jesus' coming and at the last trump; both of which occur at or near to the 6th seal.

A hundred thousand people around the world die every year for Jesus. Where is their rapture? Or is the rapture just for white, western, affluent, Christian churches? 

Luke said we would be counted worthy to flee, not be taken off the earth, if we sincerely prayed for protection. 'To escape' does not hold the meaning; "Jesus is going to come secretly and take all of us from this earth and transport us to heaven in the the twinkling of the eye."

In fact 'to escape' in Luke 21 is this idea;

ekpheugó: to flee away

Original Word: ἐκφεύγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ekpheugó
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-fyoo'-go)
Definition: to flee away
Usage: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

The individual is running away from whatever it is they are confronted with. But I don't think this is restricted to a physical flight and is also a spiritual fleeing from the deception of the beast and the FP and the mark. Will we be counted worthy to steel our minds and reject the strong pull to heed the beast and take the mark to save our flesh? That is what we need to be counted worthy to escape individually.

 

 

"

What you are saying is that the last trump will sound before the first trump, or there are two 'last trumps'."

I'm not saying anything, I'm simply quoting Scripture.

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