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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

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6 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Rapture

The event we call the rapture, is from 1st Thessalonians, chapter 4, quoted from the New International Version of the Bible below:

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The words “caught up”  there, is the Greek word  harpagesometha, in that exact form, it occurs only in this one verse, and it means “to be caught away”. Now, the NIV translators say “will be caught up”. They are getting the direction (up) from the fact that the living Christians will be caught away to be with the Lord in the clouds in the air. So how does this become the English word “Rapture”?  

The word “rapture” comes to us from Latin. In the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible:

Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord.

“shall be taken up”, is the word rapiemur

The word has the connotation of being snatched away forcefully, we get out English word “rape” from this, now this snatching away is a good thing though, not a violent, unwanted act.

So now you know why we have the word rapture, to describe the event, even though it is no in our English Bibles. By the way, even though this word is only used once, the event itself is described and alluded to, in many places in the Bible, some of which we will see later.

Just a copy paste from something I was writing earlier today, for what it is worth.

Thanks. I am very familiar with where the word 'rapture' comes from. Rather it's the usage of the word that is greatly misunderstood today. ;)

As I stated earlier... from my time in the written Word and seeking the Living Word, I am absolutely convinced that 1Thess 4 and the other 'rapture' verses are speaking of the First Resurrection of the overcoming Elect of God, which as Jesus clearly stated, takes place AFTER the Great Distress or Tribulation. The bodies of these alone (at this time) will rise from the graves and be clothed with their "tent', their spiritual, incorruptible, immortal body that they have been forming in heaven by their obedience to Christ here on earth; and they will rise - not to heaven as is commonly believed - but into the air to meet the Lord. Why the air? Because that is when the spiritual enemies of the Lord now reside. Those "principalities & rulers of darkness in the heavenlies" led by the "prince of the power of the air."  Here the now glorified, immortal Elect will dethrone those usurpers and take their place of rulership. Evil will be driven from the earth. Antichrist, and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and the devil into the pit for a time. Now Messiah (Head & Body) will rule from Jerusalem over the nations of the earth for a season. "And then the end shall some." 

This is an extremely brief and summarized version of what will take place. But the bottom line is... The First Resurrection saints must be proven through the sufferings, temptations and tribulations of this life. For God to secretly send Jesus to come 'steal away' church-goers so satan can't harm them is not only completely unscriptural, but would defeat the very plan and purpose of God. 

I find myself saying this more & more these days... We are truly in great need of a Back-to-the-Bible Revival in our churches. 

Peace to you brother! :)

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53 minutes ago, Michael (limmuwd) said:

Personally, the word "rapture" is greatly misunderstood today, and a great many myths, fables and wishful thinking is conjured up when the word is mentioned. 

But from my time in the written Word and seeking the Living Word, I am absolutely convinced that 1Thess 4 and the other 'rapture' verses are speaking of the First Resurrection of the overcoming Elect of God, which as Jesus clearly stated, takes place AFTER the Great Distress or Tribulation. The bodies of these alone (at this time) will rise from the graves and be clothed with their "tent', their spiritual, incorruptible, immortal body that they have been forming in heaven by their obedience to Christ here on earth; and they will rise - not to heaven as is commonly believed - but into the air to meet the Lord. Why the air? Because that is when the spiritual enemies of the Lord now reside. Those "principalities & rulers of darkness in the heavenlies" led by the "prince of the power of the air."  Here the now glorified, immortal Elect will dethrone those usurpers and take their place of rulership. Evil will be driven from the earth. Antichrist, and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and the devil into the pit for a time. Now Messiah (Head & Body) will rule from Jerusalem over the nations of the earth for a season. "And then the end shall some." 

This is an extremely brief and summarized version of what will take place. But the bottom line is... The First Resurrection saints must be proven through the sufferings, temptations and tribulations of this life. For God to secretly send Jesus to come 'steal away' church-goers so satan can't harm them is not only completely unscriptural, but would defeat the very plan and purpose of God. 

I find myself saying this more & more these days... We are truly in great need of a Back-to-the-Bible Revival in our churches. 

Peace & Blessings to all who walk with Jesus,
Michael 

 

AMEN!!

 

The moment I read/hear someone exclaiming the Pre-Trib theory, is the very moment I understand that I am looking at a COWARD!!

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, childoftheking said:

 

AMEN!!

 

The moment I read/hear someone exclaiming the Pre-Trib theory, is the very moment I understand that I am looking at a COWARD!!

The moment I read/hear someone exclaiming the Pre-trib theory, is the very moment that I stand in amazement. They usually have so many things in their timeline that are wrong that it is amazing that they are able to correctly understand that their will be a pre tribulation rapture. However, I have not met a coward among them. They only seem to be people that are seeking the truth of Gods word. If God says it is the time of Jacobs trouble, why would the church be here. You can hang around for Jacobs trouble if you like. God says that Israel will become jealous when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Gee what could that mean?

You have never answered who the kings and priests are that were redeemed from the earth in Rev 5 . These 24 elders are obviously speaking for a group. Who are they and how did they get before the throne?

Rev 5

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

You also never answered who the Babylonian King in Isaiah 14 is. It's OK if you don't know, just keep adding them to the list of things that you can't discern.

Edited by The Light
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, The Light said:

The moment I read/hear someone exclaiming the Pre-trib theory, is the very moment that I stand in amazement. They usually have so many things in their timeline that are wrong that it is amazing that they are able to correctly understand that their will be a pre tribulation rapture. However, I have not met a coward among them. They only seem to be people that are seeking the truth of Gods word. If God says it is the time of Jacobs trouble, why would the church be here. You can hang around for Jacobs trouble if you like. God says that Israel will become jealous when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Gee what could that mean?

You have never answered who the kings and priests are that were redeemed from the earth in Rev 5 . These 24 elders are obviously speaking for a group. Who are they and how did they get before the throne?

Rev 5

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

You also never answered who the Babylonian King in Isaiah 14 is. It's OK if you don't know, just keep adding them to the list of things that you can't discern.

(1)

The rapture theory, comes from what we read in the English version.  I believe the rapture theory is an English theory.   The English speaking nations haven't really suffered for their beliefs.  That kind of leads me to believe, the rapture theory is the hope to keep from ever having to suffer.

 

(2)

I believe when I use this KJV Revelation 20:4, and the Greek Revelation 5:10, they kind of mesh and fill in the blanks.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

^ this is the beheaded and they reign with Yeshua for a 1,000 years.

 

10 Thou dost also make them a kingdom and a priesthood for our God, And they shall be reigning on the earth."

^this mentions these are the ones reigning on earth.   We know it is for 1,000 years with Yeshua.

 

Verse 4 and 10 really seem to be insync with one another.   So, to answer your question, I believe it speaks of the Beheaded.

 

(3)

Are you talking about the "Key of David," which is the king of Babylon known as Nebuchadrezzar.  And Prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah speak of him and Daniel:

Daniel 2:35 The feet are the two branches from whence the ten toes come.

"the Parable of the Fig Tree"

 

What about Nebuchadrezzar?

Edited by childoftheking

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8 hours ago, childoftheking said:
Quote

(1)

The rapture theory, comes from what we read in the English version.  I believe the rapture theory is an English theory.   The English speaking nations haven't really suffered for their beliefs.  That kind of leads me to believe, the rapture theory is the hope to keep from ever having to suffer.

You probably need to look at history a little closer. The Christians, mostly Gentiles, suffered greatly at the hands of the Romans until Constantine declared Rome was Christian. Then from the late 6th century until the Muslims have been killing Christians so much so that there were six major Crusades to deal with this issue. Today Muslims are still killing Christians. The reason that the United States was spared from this bloodshed is that this country was basically set up by those fleeing religious persecution. We are One Nation Under God. And the Lord has prospered us and used this country to spread the Gospel to the world. So what you see is a very small part of the persecution that has been on the Church.

Quote

 

(2)

I believe when I use this KJV Revelation 20:4, and the Greek Revelation 5:10, they kind of mesh and fill in the blanks.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

^ this is the beheaded and they reign with Yeshua for a 1,000 years.

 

10 Thou dost also make them a kingdom and a priesthood for our God, And they shall be reigning on the earth."

^this mentions these are the ones reigning on earth.   We know it is for 1,000 years with Yeshua.

 

Verse 4 and 10 really seem to be insync with one another.   So, to answer your question, I believe it speaks of the Beheaded.

 

This cannot be correct because the multitude in Rev 5 is there before any seals are opened. The first 5 seals are the tribulation period. After the seals are opened then the rider of the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. The people in Rev 20 do not worship the beast and are killed.

 

 

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8 hours ago, childoftheking said:

(3)

Are you talking about the "Key of David," which is the king of Babylon known as Nebuchadrezzar.  And Prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah speak of him and Daniel:

Daniel 2:35 The feet are the two branches from whence the ten toes come.

"the Parable of the Fig Tree"

 

What about Nebuchadrezzar?

No the Babylonia king is not Nebuchadnezzar. We certainly know that this king is not Satan or Lucifer as we know the king is a man.

Isa 14

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

This verse tells us who the Babylonian king is.

Isa 14

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

To make any sense of this verse you should have this piece of information.

Jer 10

For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

When the Babylonian king is laid down, the fir tree will not be cut down any more. That means the Christmas tree will not be cut down any longer. The Christmas tree has been cut down and decorated since Tammuz was killed. Tammuz was considered the reincarnation of Nimrod. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the pyramid with the Eye of Horus on it. Horus is the false Christ that the world is expecting. Tammuz is Horus.

Ecc 1

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

 

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On 5/26/2019 at 1:11 AM, Michael (limmuwd) said:

Thanks. I am very familiar with where the word 'rapture' comes from. Rather it's the usage of the word that is greatly misunderstood today.

-and I did not write it to inform you, or comment on what you are trying to say, I posted that for those who may not know these things about the word rapture, but would find the information interesting or valuable - basically, it is just factual info, neutral in terms of presenting a position or opinion, it just is what it is.

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On 5/26/2019 at 1:51 AM, childoftheking said:

The moment I read/hear someone exclaiming the Pre-Trib theory, is the very moment I understand that I am looking at a COWARD!!

I think that judgment may be flawed. There may be those who are motivated or who accept the pre-trib position just based on the comfort that it affords, but I suspect that most just believe it to be true, have probably been taught it, and or innocent of any wrong intentions or motivation. Many have not studied it our well, and many do not feel they are equipped to understand these things on their own. 

Consequently they may just be going with what their pastor says, and he may just be going with what he was taught in seminary. In short, they are not necessarily cowards, I suspect that many pre-tribbers would die for their savior if that is a position they find themselves, in, the just do not believe that this a position (in the middle of the great tribulation that Jesus described) that the church will find itself in.

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Aw how nifty, page 100, a 100th pageavesary!

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On 5/28/2019 at 10:43 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I think that judgment may be flawed. There may be those who are motivated or who accept the pre-trib position just based on the comfort that it affords, but I suspect that most just believe it to be true, have probably been taught it, and or innocent of any wrong intentions or motivation. Many have not studied it our well, and many do not feel they are equipped to understand these things on their own. 

Consequently they may just be going with what their pastor says, and he may just be going with what he was taught in seminary. In short, they are not necessarily cowards, I suspect that many pre-tribbers would die for their savior if that is a position they find themselves, in, the just do not believe that this a position (in the middle of the great tribulation that Jesus described) that the church will find itself in.

That may be true in a vacuum but it's not the case here. I don't agree with the coward comment above but fear is a motivation and sincere belief is not a barometer of the truth. If one has not resolved to die for our Savior in any position, including the predetermined willingness to die for Jesus that awaits in GT, then they are not so prepared if they deny the possibility of finding themselves in GT.

I find it quite sad that so many are unprepared through knowledge, missing the spiritual preparedness required to see the future, and hear the profound message of living for Jesus and dying in Christ for gain.

I was taught pretrib for many years when I was young. I checked what I was taught against the standard and found pretrib wanting in many respects.

It seems personal desires and fear are what keeps many from the truth.

 

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