No Holy Spirit in the Great Tribulation, the sealing and assignment of 144k Hebrew and 2 Witnesses means church era is over.

[R. Hartono]

2 Thes 2: ⁷ For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the One who now holds it back will continue to do so till He is taken out of the way.⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed............

Paul wrote about Holy Spirit will be taken back to God so the unbelieving world may be ruled and be deceived by the lawless beast when God's patience is finished : 2 Thes 2 ¹¹ For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the LIES ¹² and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

How about the church ? Will the bride of Christ be given to the beast to be beaten black and blue before the wedding ? Never, because Holy Spirit abide with the church forever :

John 14 ¹⁶ And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever.

Therefore the taking back of the Holy Spirit means the end of the church age being raptured to heaven as the great multitude before the throne.

The sealing of the 144000 literal Hebrew is not of Holy Spirit, it is Angel's sealing, as happened in the life of Ezekiel where God marked the true Hebrew to avoid them from the annihilation by God's judgment : Ezekiel 9:4 The Lord said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst.”

Angel (not the Holy Spirit) done the sealing : Rev 7 ² Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: ³ “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

Holy Spirit is the seal for redemption, Ephesian 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God of whom you have been sealed for the day of redemption.

But why angel's sealing ? Because Holy Spirit has been taken back with the church  presented as the Harvest to God. THE CHURCH WAS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND ON EARTH OTHERWISE THEY WILL BE SEALED BY ANGEL AS WELL FOR PROTECTION BUT THE CHURCH ERA IS OVER AND DOESNT NEED THIS.

The early church of apostles have believed in Jesus before the downpour of Holy Spirit on that Pentecost Day, the absence of Holy Spirit doesnt prevent people from believing the Salvation news. Holy Spirit purpose is to replace Jesus to build up the church around the world with 9 Gifts of Holy Spirit, but there will be no church in great tribulation it will be banned and destroyed.

The sealing of the 144000 Hebrew by angel means the church ministry era has ended and God is back to deal with the Hebrew and returns the mandate of Salvation news to the Hebrew like the OT history, God also appoint the two witnesses of Revelation probably Moses and Elijah to lead the 144000 and they will carry on the good news of Jesus salvation to the world with fierce hands in the middle of horror  annihilation of mankind, just like Ezekiel's old time.

In the last two thousand years of church ministry works in the world, many christians have been martyred or persecuted. The reason for this is that God is still giving this world the chance to repent despite of their treacherous bloody attitude. But in the great tribulation God will torment the unbelieving world via the two witnesses, not via the church as its role is over.

Rev 11 ⁵ If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. ⁶ They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. 9...because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/259294-the-fullness-of-gentiles-god-will-return-the-mandate-of-salvation-to-the-hebrew-144000-n-the-2-ot-witnesses/?tab=comments#comment-3298430

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by R. Hartono

[Marilyn C]

Hi R. Hartono,

I agree with much of what you wrote, however not this point.

God is omnipresent, (present everywhere) thus the Holy Spirit is still active on the earth during the tribulation. People are still being saved but NOT being set in the Body of Christ. Those saved, (eg the great multitude) are of the nations. They will eventually go on to the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Marilyn.

[Faith-Not-Fear]

I agree with you. I have always heard it taught that the Holy Spirit will be taken away with the rapture.

But here's a controversial question in which I have heard 2 answers and am confused about. Are only the 144,000 sealed? If so, does that mean that the tribulation saints will be hurt along with everyone else by the locusts in Revelation 9:1-11?

[Justin Adams]

To answer the OP. The 'great tribulation' from Israel's perspective is long over. The Spirit of the Lord is always here.

All these silly end times scenarios are incorrect. We await the final day of the Lord and in the meantime we stay away from fables and get on with the Great Commission. God is always Sovereign up until eternity and way past the last heartbeat of the last saved soul.

All the rest is supposition based on supposition and falsehood plus the misreading of many scriptures.

[missmuffet]

The Holy Spirit will still be present during the 7 year tribulation. Unbelievers will be saved during the tribulation. They would not be able to be saved if there were no Holy Spirit. 

[other one]

10 hours ago, Faith-Not-Fear said:

I agree with you. I have always heard it taught that the Holy Spirit will be taken away with the rapture.

But here's a controversial question in which I have heard 2 answers and am confused about. Are only the 144,000 sealed? If so, does that mean that the tribulation saints will be hurt along with everyone else by the locusts in Revelation 9:1-11?

Probably dead from not taking the mark and worshiping the beast if there is no rapture.

[Alive]

11 hours ago, Faith-Not-Fear said:

I agree with you. I have always heard it taught that the Holy Spirit will be taken away with the rapture.

But here's a controversial question in which I have heard 2 answers and am confused about. Are only the 144,000 sealed? If so, does that mean that the tribulation saints will be hurt along with everyone else by the locusts in Revelation 9:1-11?

Do you believe that God is omnipresent?

[R. Hartono]

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Holy Spirit will still be present during the 7 year tribulation. Unbelievers will be saved during the tribulation. They would not be able to be saved if there were no Holy Spirit. 

The early church of apostles believed in Jesus already but they had not received Holy Spirit so Jesus commanded them to wait in Jerusalem for Holy Spirit baptism on that Pentecost day.

Paul and Peter met many believers who believe in Lord Jesus already but they didn't know about Holy Spirit baptism.

Holy Spirit brings the 9 gifts to build up the church, these are the gift of Glosolalia, Xenolalia, healing, interpreting Glosolalia, discerning spirits, etc. This gifts will be no more in the great tribulation as the church of wise virgins is taken to the Feast of the Lamb.

People who believe the 2 Witnesses and refuse the Mark of the beast will go into captivity or be killed as Rev 13:10 says, no more Holy Spirit Gifts to build up the church as there will be no more church.

Edited September 28, 2021 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:12 PM, Marilyn C said:

God is omnipresent, (present everywhere) thus the Holy Spirit is still active on the earth during the tribulation. People are still being saved

God is omnipresent means He knows everything and always present Himself in this world, but the Bible said His presence was in the form of Father (OT), Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit (NT).

In the great tribulation the 2 Witnesses and the sealed 144000 Hebrew will replace the Holy Spirit and the church, as God will return the mandate of salvation to the Hebrew.

Believers who refuse to worship the beast antichrist will either go into captivity or be killed as Rev 13:10 says. There will be no more churches allowed in the great tribulation. Holy Spirit was given in Pentecost day 2000 years ago to build up the church with 9 Gifts of Holy Spirit, not in the great tribulation where churches shall be destroyed.

6 hours ago, Alive said:

Do you believe that God is omnipresent?

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

7 hours ago, other one said:

Probably dead from not taking the mark and worshiping the beast if there is no rapture.

Imho they may also be killed earlier by famine, riots, wars, and  calamity after the Seals opening in the first half of great tribulation.