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PROOF FOR A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE


rollinTHUNDER

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" PROOF FOR A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE "

Written : Jan. 6, 2003 By : rollinTHUNDER

Many believers try to use the gospels, mainly Mathew 24, as proof against a pre-trib rapture, but I want to share something about this profound mystery that many are not aware of. That the rapture was (at that time) unrevealed.

Mathew 24 is mostly referring to the tribulation, not the rapture that some believers like to combine with the second coming. The resurrection and second coming were common knowledge, but none of the gospels mentioned the rapture, at least not directly. In Matt. 24:3 the disciples didn't question Jesus about being "caught up", but rather about His second coming. The second coming will have signs, but them being "caught up" will come upon them suddenly, like a thief in the night and as quickly as a twinkling of an eye, or faster than you can blink.

Matt.24:3 - "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. "Tell us," they said, "When will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

They were asking first, about the stones of the temple being thrown down, and then second, about the sign of His second coming and the end of the age. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but the second coming and the end of the age are still unfulfilled future events, but the second coming will have signs, while we are told that Jesus will also come like a thief in the night and unexpectedly. These must be two different events, because it can't be both ways. One will have signs, but the other will come unexpectedly, like getting caught in a trap after the door closes, (Matt. 25:10).

They asked this question before the mystery of the rapture had even been revealed to them, so at the time, they had no knowledge of the rapture whatsoever. It was Paul that revealed to them this mystery, but Paul wasn't even a believer at the time when they asked this question, in fact, he was trying to destroy the church. Paul did not believe until after Christ had already ascended to heaven. But the disciples asked Jesus this question before Christ was even crucified. They didn't even know that He was going to die for the sins of the world, even after Jesus repeatedly warned them. So, they could have only been talking about the second coming then, and not the rapture that post-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. There now, that kinda sheds a different light on the subject doesn't it??

This is the first revelation of the mysterious rapture:

1 Corr. 15: 51-52 - "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--(52)in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

It was Paul who revealed this mystery. He also wrote most of the New Testament. The disciples in Mathew 24:3 hadn't been paying very close attention to what Jesus was telling them. Peter went on to deny Him three times and the rest of them were also fearful after His death, not even knowing that their Master was to be crucified, even after He repeatedly told them the time was coming. This time was also before they had received the Holy Spirit, which didn't happen until after Christ had ascended back to heaven. So the disciples at that time, not only did they not have the Spirit in them, but they were also unable to discern the spiritual things, because it is impossible without the Holy Spirit living inside of a believer.

Listen to what Jesus told His disciples before He ascended:

John 16: 12-13 - "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13)But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come."

Also, How could Jesus tell them when He was coming to take them to be where He was, if He did not know the time Himself?? Jesus said that He didn't know, nor the angels, but only His Father. In the traditional Jewish wedding, the father would not send his son to get the bride until he aproved of the son's provisions for his bride. That's where Jesus said He was going, to prepare a place for them. He is still building it, and He will not be finished until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then Jacob's trouble will begin. Be careful folks, we were never told that the rapture, or our "being caught up together with them" will have any signs. This is a very dangerous false assumption.

Sometimes I think it's funny, knowing that the bible says that we are not appointed to wrath, but yet many christians believe that we will go through God's wrath in the coming tribulation, like we will be devinely protected. There will be, however, a small group that will see this type of protection, but it won't be our current body of Christ, but rather, this is reserved for the sealing of the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel in the tribulation.

Some christians make the claim that because God protected Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego while they were in the firey furnace, then He will also protect us christians in the 7 year tribulation. Well I'll agree that God did actually protect Daniel's three friends in the furnace, but come on folks, this is not a picture of the rapture or the second coming. It has nothing to do with either one. Christ Himself gave us two pictures of what His coming could be compared to, and the furnace was not one of them, and neither was the one where God protected Daniel in the lions den. It's not hard for sheep to stray, and it appears that many have wandered away from the sheep pen.

We always hear of how wise Daniel and Solomon were, but the wisdom they had was not really their own. It was a gift from the Lord. It's God that directs our path and we draw our wisdom and knowledge from Him, as well as all the other gifts too, but I love the steps that Jesus took to keep the wolves in sheep's clothing from knowing how to get where the real sheep are going. He is the very definition of wise in my book. He has out smarted them, sort of like leading the wolves to a dry well.

His salvation message is so simple that a child can understand it, but yet, the worlds wise trip right over the stumblingblock. It's as though Christ designed a built-in way of keeping imposters out of the Kingdom of God, and even many who claim to know Him. I'm not saying that everyone that believes in the mid or post-trib rapture are wolves, because I actually believe that there are wolves in all camps, pre, mid and post-trib, not to even mention the scoffers. If I claimed something as ridiculous as that, I would be causing division, and that is not my purpose here. So be it known now, that I'm not against any such group.

He displays this wisdom in His parables. Instead of the sheep being the ones to get lost, He turns the table on the wolves so that they are the ones to lose their way. The Lord gives us a special understanding, while the wolves stand there dumbfounded. Salvation is very simple to understand, but the mysteries of prophecy are very complex. So much so, that the Lord must give us the key to unlock them, and without the key, even believers can stumble over these mysteries just the same as the wolves trip over the parables. Without the Holy Spirit guiding us, putting together the pieces to the puzzle is impossible.

This is what I mean. Take a look at this wisdom:

Mark 4:9-12 - "Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (10)When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. (11)he told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables (12)so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"

Have you ever wondered why He has made these mysteries so complicated, even for us that believe? I believe the reason is because that He wants to see who really loves Him. He came to set us free, and to do that, He had to fulfill the old law, which He did. So we no longer live under the bondage of the law. The old law had it's commandments carved in stone tablets, but what most christians don't know is that Christ gave us His own commandments. He didn't carve them in stone or write them down, and number them in any certain order. He scattered them like seed through out the entire New Testament, and then He told us to seek, knock and ask. They are also hidden in the hearts of those who love Him. If we truely love Him, then we will obey Him. His word is our daily bread and our Bibles should not be just collecting dust. Lets not just feed our flesh, but our spirit as well!!

Now lets look at the two pictures He wanted us to see regarding His coming. As always, I am not cramming my beliefs down anyones throat, but for you scoffers that read this, please don't bother telling me how much of a nut I am, or that I am reading too many Hal Lindsey books and the like. I probably may not even want to reply if you do. I have never read in any book what I am about to share, nor have I ever heard anyone else teach these things.

In Mathew 24, Jesus tells us that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah, but I want to go to the book of Luke now, because Lukes version gives us the two pictures of His coming, instead of just one. I also believe they shed light on two different subjects. The story of Noah gives us a clue of when the rapture will take place, while the story of Lot has almost nothing to do with the rapture, but rather the tribulation. No wonder why Jesus gave us both pictures to look at!!

Jesus shows us what will be going on in the world at the time of His second coming. Note however, that He is describing what happens to those who get caught in the destruction. He doesn't tell about His chosen ones here. I say "chosen" here because many are called, but few are chosen.

Luke 17: 26-30 - "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. (27)People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

(28)It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (29)But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. (30)It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed."

This is a warning to unbelievers, but it is not the whole story, it's only half. Notice that it only told us what the unbelievers would be doing?? What about those of us that are watching and waiting for our Bridegroom to come?? For that answer, we must go to the One who created the end from the beginning. To understand these clues we must go back to the book of Genesis, which holds the answers to both. Lets go there right now!!

For the sake of keeping this a little bit shorter, I'm only going to type the verses needed to make my point. I will use ten verses in chapter 7, but I will type in bold print our clues of a pre-trib rapture.

Genesis 7:1-10 - "(1) Then the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you alone are righteous before me in this generation. (2) Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; (3) and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth. (4) For in seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

(5) And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him. (6) Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters came on the earth. (7) And Noah with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood. (8) Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, (9) two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah. (10) And after seven days the waters of the flood came on the earth.

***Just a quick note here before we go any further***

Notice that they entered the ark seven days before the flood. I believe the seven days represent the seven year tribulation to come. I believe this is Daniel's missing 70th week.

The rain/water represents wrath.

Forty days = 1st half of tribulation/ Satan's wrath

Forty nights = 2nd half Great tribulation/ God's wrath

Also, forty is a number that God uses in the Bible to represent punishment, for example: He kept Israel in the wilderness for forty years for being disobedient.

************

Now in the story of Lot, we get a different view. Actually, I can see two pictures in this account, and neither one is a glimpse of the rapture. One shows that Lot missed the mark or God's best, and the other shows a picture of Israel in the tribulation, which I won't cover in this article. In this story, we'll see the ones who are left behind, and they are running for their lives. As we saw Noah escape the flood, floating high above the mountains in chapter 7:17-20, another story is developing in a different chapter and we'll pick it up in the same verse we left off in chapter 7, but instead, we'll move to chapter 19. This is remarkable!! I am totally amazed at what the Lord is showing me here!! It reminds me of two other threads that I wrote previously, namely, "The Parable of the Sower" and "A MYSTERY: The Rapture and the Parable of the Ten Virgins". This picture is much more difficult to understand because it has more characters and more events to interpret, so I will interpret the bold print, verse by verse after I show the scriptures. Lets go there right now!

Genesis 19:10-26 - "(10) But the two angels reached out and pulled Lot in and bolted the door. (11) Then they blinded the men of Sodom so they couldn't find the doorway.

(12) "Do you have any other relatives here in the city?" the angels asked. "Get them out of this place

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(Seapraiser2 @ Jan. 07 2003,3:26)

Good writing and praise God for the Day as it draws near.

I have a web page you may enjoy and be blessed by.

It's called====> .........COME UP HERE!

go to:

"

Hello Seapraiser2,

Wow!! That was an excellent read my friend!! I sure am glad you stopped by, and I hope you will be posting with us more here on this board. I was amazed to see how much alike our beliefs are. And our differences are almost none. I did have trouble getting the link to work though. I will post it here for anyone else that is interested. Click on the link below:

http://members.aol.com/seapraiser2/comeuphere.htm

Thanks Much Seapraiser2!! Cheers!!

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If I could only pick one word for what the Lord will be looking for in His bride, it would be "obedience".  But not just a plain obedience, but rather a faithful enduring and loving obedience.  It was Jesus who said, "If you love me, you will obey me."  And He also said, "My Father will honor the one who serves me."  I believe that these two verses sum it all up, but also, we should serve Him out of a pure love, instead of a sense of duty.  It is this love who's yoke is easy, and who's burden is light, because serving Him is no problem at all for those who really love Him.  But to others, who do it out of duty, it can become burdensome sometimes.

Some people think the key word is righteousness.  That is also an important part, but not when you consider the rapture of the bride.  Because the bride will be declared righteous by the blood of Jesus, but also, so will the five foolish virgins when they are martyred in the tribulation.  They will be found with the same righteousness.  It is their degree of obedience that will separate the two, because one was voluntarily obedient out of a pure love, while the other did it more out of duty.  The one who does it out of love will be able to finish the race, but the other one stands a great chance of being tripped up by "self" and the desires of this life.  I believe this is the key to being found worthy.  It's not about being better than someone else, as some try to claim.  The ones who claim this are missing the whole point, because we will not be judged according to the works of someone else, nor will we be compared to anyone else.  Cheers!!

I really liked this part, and it confirmed alot for me.

Thanks for sharing.

I printed it out and I will focus on this.

This word is much more important than people even realize. I think a good example is when God kept the Israelites from entering the Promised Land because of their disobedience. Now we are wanting to enter a much better Promised Land. Only the doers will make it, not the hearers. Remember the first time Messiah came?? The Jews knew He was coming, but they were caught off guard because they were expecting a conquerring King, but He came as a lowly servant.

Now the Jews and christians are both expecting Him. Many people are trusting in their beliefs, rather than obeying His commands. I believe there is a rude awakening coming for some. Most were caught off guard the first time, and I believe it will be much the same when He comes the second time.

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" PROOF FOR A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE "

Written : Jan. 6, 2003 By : rollinTHUNDER

Many believers try to use the gospels, mainly Mathew 24, as proof against a pre-trib rapture, but I want to share something about this profound mystery that many are not aware of. That the rapture was (at that time) unrevealed.

Mathew 24 is mostly referring to the tribulation, not the rapture that some believers like to combine with the second coming. The resurrection and second coming were common knowledge, but none of the gospels mentioned the rapture, at least not directly. In Matt. 24:3 the disciples didn't question Jesus about being "caught up", but rather about His second coming. The second coming will have signs, but them being "caught up" will come upon them suddenly, like a thief in the night and as quickly as a twinkling of an eye, or faster than you can blink.

Matt.24:3 - "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. "Tell us," they said, "When will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

They were asking first, about the stones of the temple being thrown down, and then second, about the sign of His second coming and the end of the age. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but the second coming and the end of the age are still unfulfilled future events, but the second coming will have signs, while we are told that Jesus will also come like a thief in the night and unexpectedly. These must be two different events, because it can't be both ways. One will have signs, but the other will come unexpectedly, like getting caught in a trap after the door closes, (Matt. 25:10).

They asked this question before the mystery of the rapture had even been revealed to them, so at the time, they had no knowledge of the rapture whatsoever. It was Paul that revealed to them this mystery, but Paul wasn't even a believer at the time when they asked this question, in fact, he was trying to destroy the church. Paul did not believe until after Christ had already ascended to heaven. But the disciples asked Jesus this question before Christ was even crucified. They didn't even know that He was going to die for the sins of the world, even after Jesus repeatedly warned them. So, they could have only been talking about the second coming then, and not the rapture that post-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. There now, that kinda sheds a different light on the subject doesn't it??

This is the first revelation of the mysterious rapture:

1 Corr. 15: 51-52 - "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--(52)in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

It was Paul who revealed this mystery. He also wrote most of the New Testament. The disciples in Mathew 24:3 hadn't been paying very close attention to what Jesus was telling them. Peter went on to deny Him three times and the rest of them were also fearful after His death, not even knowing that their Master was to be crucified, even after He repeatedly told them the time was coming. This time was also before they had received the Holy Spirit, which didn't happen until after Christ had ascended back to heaven. So the disciples at that time, not only did they not have the Spirit in them, but they were also unable to discern the spiritual things, because it is impossible without the Holy Spirit living inside of a believer.

Listen to what Jesus told His disciples before He ascended:

John 16: 12-13 - "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13)But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come."

Also, How could Jesus tell them when He was coming to take them to be where He was, if He did not know the time Himself?? Jesus said that He didn't know, nor the angels, but only His Father. In the traditional Jewish wedding, the father would not send his son to get the bride until he aproved of the son's provisions for his bride. That's where Jesus said He was going, to prepare a place for them. He is still building it, and He will not be finished until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then Jacob's trouble will begin. Be careful folks, we were never told that the rapture, or our "being caught up together with them" will have any signs. This is a very dangerous false assumption.

Sometimes I think it's funny, knowing that the bible says that we are not appointed to wrath, but yet many christians believe that we will go through God's wrath in the coming tribulation, like we will be devinely protected. There will be, however, a small group that will see this type of protection, but it won't be our current body of Christ, but rather, this is reserved for the sealing of the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel in the tribulation.

Some christians make the claim that because God protected Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego while they were in the firey furnace, then He will also protect us christians in the 7 year tribulation. Well I'll agree that God did actually protect Daniel's three friends in the furnace, but come on folks, this is not a picture of the rapture or the second coming. It has nothing to do with either one. Christ Himself gave us two pictures of what His coming could be compared to, and the furnace was not one of them, and neither was the one where God protected Daniel in the lions den. It's not hard for sheep to stray, and it appears that many have wandered away from the sheep pen.

We always hear of how wise Daniel and Solomon were, but the wisdom they had was not really their own. It was a gift from the Lord. It's God that directs our path and we draw our wisdom and knowledge from Him, as well as all the other gifts too, but I love the steps that Jesus took to keep the wolves in sheep's clothing from knowing how to get where the real sheep are going. He is the very definition of wise in my book. He has out smarted them, sort of like leading the wolves to a dry well.

His salvation message is so simple that a child can understand it, but yet, the worlds wise trip right over the stumblingblock. It's as though Christ designed a built-in way of keeping imposters out of the Kingdom of God, and even many who claim to know Him. I'm not saying that everyone that believes in the mid or post-trib rapture are wolves, because I actually believe that there are wolves in all camps, pre, mid and post-trib, not to even mention the scoffers. If I claimed something as ridiculous as that, I would be causing division, and that is not my purpose here. So be it known now, that I'm not against any such group.

He displays this wisdom in His parables. Instead of the sheep being the ones to get lost, He turns the table on the wolves so that they are the ones to lose their way. The Lord gives us a special understanding, while the wolves stand there dumbfounded. Salvation is very simple to understand, but the mysteries of prophecy are very complex. So much so, that the Lord must give us the key to unlock them, and without the key, even believers can stumble over these mysteries just the same as the wolves trip over the parables. Without the Holy Spirit guiding us, putting together the pieces to the puzzle is impossible.

This is what I mean. Take a look at this wisdom:

Mark 4:9-12 - "Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (10)When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. (11)he told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables (12)so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"

Have you ever wondered why He has made these mysteries so complicated, even for us that believe? I believe the reason is because that He wants to see who really loves Him. He came to set us free, and to do that, He had to fulfill the old law, which He did. So we no longer live under the bondage of the law. The old law had it's commandments carved in stone tablets, but what most christians don't know is that Christ gave us His own commandments. He didn't carve them in stone or write them down, and number them in any certain order. He scattered them like seed through out the entire New Testament, and then He told us to seek, knock and ask. They are also hidden in the hearts of those who love Him. If we truely love Him, then we will obey Him. His word is our daily bread and our Bibles should not be just collecting dust. Lets not just feed our flesh, but our spirit as well!!

Now lets look at the two pictures He wanted us to see regarding His coming. As always, I am not cramming my beliefs down anyones throat, but for you scoffers that read this, please don't bother telling me how much of a nut I am, or that I am reading too many Hal Lindsey books and the like. I probably may not even want to reply if you do. I have never read in any book what I am about to share, nor have I ever heard anyone else teach these things.

In Mathew 24, Jesus tells us that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah, but I want to go to the book of Luke now, because Lukes version gives us the two pictures of His coming, instead of just one. I also believe they shed light on two different subjects. The story of Noah gives us a clue of when the rapture will take place, while the story of Lot has almost nothing to do with the rapture, but rather the tribulation. No wonder why Jesus gave us both pictures to look at!!

Jesus shows us what will be going on in the world at the time of His second coming. Note however, that He is describing what happens to those who get caught in the destruction. He doesn't tell about His chosen ones here. I say "chosen" here because many are called, but few are chosen.

Luke 17: 26-30 - "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. (27)People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

(28)It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (29)But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. (30)It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed."

This is a warning to unbelievers, but it is not the whole story, it's only half. Notice that it only told us what the unbelievers would be doing?? What about those of us that are watching and waiting for our Bridegroom to come?? For that answer, we must go to the One who created the end from the beginning. To understand these clues we must go back to the book of Genesis, which holds the answers to both. Lets go there right now!!

For the sake of keeping this a little bit shorter, I'm only going to type the verses needed to make my point. I will use ten verses in chapter 7, but I will type in bold print our clues of a pre-trib rapture.

Genesis 7:1-10 - "(1) Then the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you alone are righteous before me in this generation. (2) Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; (3) and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth. (4) For in seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

(5) And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him. (6) Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters came on the earth. (7) And Noah with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood. (8) Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, (9) two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah. (10) And after seven days the waters of the flood came on the earth.

***Just a quick note here before we go any further***

Notice that they entered the ark seven days before the flood. I believe the seven days represent the seven year tribulation to come. Is this Daniel's missing 70th week?

The rain/water represents wrath.

Forty days = 1st half of tribulation/ Satan's wrath

Forty nights = 2nd half Great tribulation/ God's wrath

Also, forty is a number that God uses in the Bible to represent punishment, for example: He kept Israel in the wilderness for forty years for being disobedient.

************

Now in the story of Lot, we get a different view. Actually, I can see two pictures in this account, and neither one is a glimpse of the rapture. One shows that Lot missed the mark or God's best, and the other shows a picture of Israel in the tribulation, which I won't cover in this article. In this story, we'll see the ones who are left behind, and they are running for their lives. As we saw Noah escape the flood, floating high above the mountains in chapter 7:17-20, another story is developing in a different chapter and we'll pick it up in the same verse we left off in chapter 7, but instead, we'll move to chapter 19. This is remarkable!! I am totally amazed at what the Lord is showing me here!! It reminds me of two other threads that I wrote previously, namely, "The Parable of the Sower" and "A MYSTERY: The Rapture and the Parable of the Ten Virgins". This picture is much more difficult to understand because it has more characters and more events to interpret, so I will interpret the bold print, verse by verse after I show the scriptures. Lets go there right now!

Genesis 19:10-26 - "(10) But the two angels reached out and pulled Lot in and bolted the door. (11) Then they blinded the men of Sodom so they couldn't find the doorway.

(12) "Do you have any other relatives here in the city?" the angels asked. "Get them out of this place

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JESUS just EXplained HIS RETURN
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WeLLLLLL RT------HOW do you determine "what" the disciples were"thinking??" THEY spoke OUTloud TO JESUS-YESHUA,ASking HIM a Question.....MY "thoughts" doNOT enter into the scriptures,just as your "thoughts" doNOT have anything to do with "what" the scriptures actually state......NO!!! RT

I doNOT make "assumptions" where GOD'S WORD is concerned.......HOW do "you" determine "WHO"

ARE "living sacrificial lives??" "BELIEVERS,the saved saints,those that "asked JESUS-YESHUA" to be their LORD & SAVIOUR" wiLL enter the 1,000year reign in their MORTAL bodies??

Shadow,

I think we can gather their thoughts from the inspired words they wrote, and by the answer that Jesus gave them. Apparently they didn't ask all the right questions, because Jesus was content in letting them believe that it would happen in their lifetimes, which it will because they entered into an everlasting life with no end.

It's not my place to determine which ones are truely living holy lives. I'm only responsible for me and my actions. It appears that you and I aren't coming from the same perspective. I have nothing to prove to you Gary. If you don't like my angle, maybe we should just agree to disagree. See ya!!

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WeLLLLLL RT------HOW do you determine "what" the disciples were"thinking??" THEY spoke OUTloud TO JESUS-YESHUA,ASking HIM a Question.....MY "thoughts" doNOT enter into the scriptures,just as your "thoughts" doNOT have anything to do with "what" the scriptures actually state......NO!!! RT

I doNOT make "assumptions" where GOD'S WORD is concerned.......HOW do "you" determine "WHO"

  ARE  "living sacrificial lives??"  "BELIEVERS,the saved saints,those that "asked JESUS-YESHUA" to be their LORD & SAVIOUR" wiLL enter the 1,000year reign in their MORTAL bodies??

Shadow,

I think we can gather their thoughts from the inspired words they wrote, and by the answer that Jesus gave them. Apparently they didn't ask all the right questions, because Jesus was content in letting them believe that it would happen in their lifetimes, which it will because they entered into an everlasting life with no end.

It's not my place to determine which ones are truely living holy lives. I'm only responsible for me and my actions. It appears that you and I aren't coming from the same perspective. I have nothing to prove to you Gary. If you don't like my angle, maybe we should just agree to disagree. See ya!!

heyyyyyyy rT...i just canNOT understand how you can have so many THOUGHTS[ I THINK] about GOD'S WORD----scripture is supposed to answer,verify scripture!!! NOT {I THINK}!! could you please answer ALL the questions posed??.?? another word you like to use {apparently??] HOW do you DEtermine JESUS let the disciples continue to believe ALL the events HE foretold would happen in their lifetime??.?? { aPParently?? they didNOT ask ALL the right questions??} NO rT you most assuredly doNOT have anything to "PROVE" to me BUT you are TEACHING on this board AND your TEACHINGS must lineUP with GOD'S WORD, therefore I DO HAVE THE RIGHT & THE DUTY TO QUESTION YOUR TEACHINGS & HOPEFULLY GET A SCRIPTURAL ANSWER TO EACH QUESTION POSED!!! OR do YOU get a FREE-RIDE withOUT substantiating your theories WITH SCRIPTURE ??.?? NO ASSUMPTIONS,NO CONJECTURE,NO PERSONAL OPINIONS!!!! RATHER with two or three witnesses[scriptures] to VERIFY your teachings------i don't see anything wrong with asking those types of questions..... There have been some come on these boards PROmoting the "MORMON" doctrines,& they were asked QUestions

but their teachings were REPudiated.......I don't necessarily DISagree with your teachings--per-se, but

just ask for verification with scripture......I'M NOT mad or angry with you & every now & then i TRY to add a little humor in my posts[ at least they're funny to me] SOOOOooo with all that said, can I get answers to my questions ??.?? ------- shadow-gem2b{Gary}----- :upsided: :hmmm:

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WeLLLLLLL rollin-----okey--dokey,LET'S just take a scriptural journey & "see" what the scriptures DEclare------NOW i Know that you have stated in other threads that matt.24----- isNOT addressing the

rapture,gathering to,being caughtUP to the LORD-----SOOOoooo let's just "see" what the scriptures do say.....

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WeLLLLLLL rollin-----okey--dokey,LET'S just take a scriptural journey & "see" what the scriptures DEclare------NOW i Know that you have stated in other threads that matt.24----- isNOT addressing the

rapture,gathering to,being caughtUP to the LORD-----SOOOoooo let's just "see" what the scriptures do say.....

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