iamlamad Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 In prewrath theory, is the coming of Jesus as shown in Revelation 19 the only coming—to include the rapture and Armageddon? Or is the rapture a separate coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,017 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,431 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: In prewrath theory, is the coming of Jesus as shown in Revelation 19 the only coming—to include the rapture and Armageddon? Or is the rapture a separate coming? This new theory, first propagated by Marvin Rosenthal in 1990, puts the rapture after the Beast has set himself in the Temple in Jerusalem - that is, round about 61 months into Daniel's last week of 7 years, or 84 months. I cannot answer for Mr. Rosenthal, nor for the saints that embrace this theory, but it necessitates more than one coming. The maths is simple. The Lord must come as a thief around the 61st Week for the Church But Matthew 24:28-31 gives the coming of the Lord "after the Tribulation of those days" The maths might be right but is the premise of "pre-wrath" correct? I all boils down to what, and when is God's wrath. That should be defined by each of us alone. Edited January 4, 2022 by AdHoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: In prewrath theory, is the coming of Jesus as shown in Revelation 19 the only coming—to include the rapture and Armageddon? Or is the rapture a separate coming? The prewrath theory has the Church being raptured before the wrath of God, at the 6th seal. This is in error, as we know that the Church is raptured BEFORE the 7 seals are opened. It is the 12 tribes, the seed of the woman, that is raptured at the 6th seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 Maybe I need to ask a more clear question. The bible shows us a coming in Matthew 24, and a coming in Revelation 19. Does prewrath see these two as the same coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,017 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,431 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Maybe I need to ask a more clear question. The bible shows us a coming in Matthew 24, and a coming in Revelation 19. Does prewrath see these two as the same coming? Hoping not to divert but there are two comings in Matthew 24 - one as lightening, seen by all and which causes mourning, and another as a thief which breaks up the House. A thief comes and goes unannounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,626 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 Different descriptions of the same event. One event, many attributes, different vantages and viewpoints. All the same singular event. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 35 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Maybe I need to ask a more clear question. The bible shows us a coming in Matthew 24, and a coming in Revelation 19. Does prewrath see these two as the same coming? No. They do not see the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 as the same coming in Rev 19. That said, those that believe in the standard pretribulation rapture do believe it is the same coming. It is not the same coming, but there is a pretribulation rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,746 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 308 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2022 My view is that when every eye shall see Him, it shall be people seeing Christ in all His saints. Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: Hoping not to divert but there are two comings in Matthew 24 - one as lightening, seen by all and which causes mourning, and another as a thief which breaks up the House. A thief comes and goes unannounced. I rather think the idea of a thief is that no one knows when a thief will come. And as Jesus said, no one will know when He will split the sky as lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted January 4, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,111 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,550 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted January 4, 2022 6 hours ago, iamlamad said: In prewrath theory, is the coming of Jesus as shown in Revelation 19 the only coming—to include the rapture and Armageddon? Or is the rapture a separate coming? 4 hours ago, iamlamad said: Maybe I need to ask a more clear question. The bible shows us a coming in Matthew 24, and a coming in Revelation 19. Does prewrath see these two as the same coming? First off, there is more than one version of pre-wrath (as also pre-trib and post-trib). So I only speak for my own version. That said, what is normally thought of as the Rapture of the Church takes place at the 6th Seal. What occurs during Christ's Rev. 19 descent is the final judgment of the Beast, and the nations that war with him against the Kingdom of Heaven. The Coming/Parousia of Christ begins at the 6th Seal. The Greek term parousia is used in all the key prophetic passages that describe Christ's return to Rapture the Church: Matt. 24, 1 Cor. 15, 1 Thes. 4, and 2 Thes. 2. Although the Church ascends to heaven at that time, the Lord's Presence thereafter continues to be a factor on earth; but in stages. After the Church ascends, the Wrath of God begins (Rev. 6:16-17), and the final two judgments take place: the first, during the period of the 7 Trumpets, being the judgment of the remnant of Israel: "the time of Jacob's trouble." And the second, being the above-mentioned judgment of the heathen nations, accomplished during the 7 Bowls. Since the use of the word parousia is so critical to the understanding of the Second Coming, I recommend you read the following blog which details the relevant Scriptures: 52. The Parousia of the Son of Man Reviews the use of the term parousia by Jesus, Paul, and Peter, and what is thereby revealed about the sequence of End Time events. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2211-the-parousia-of-the-son-of-man/ For an outline of the different judgments, the following is a good place to start: 48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1 First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with The 7 Spirits. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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