A Prewrath Rapture question

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Did you not read?

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The fire will REGENERATE earth for the 1000 year reign. 

It will be at the great, white throne judgment that the heavens and earth disappear.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Did you not read?

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The fire will REGENERATE earth for the 1000 year reign. 

It will be at the great, white throne judgment that the heavens and earth disappear.

No such thing as a 1,000 year regeneration of this earth by fire found in scripture

Edited March 31, 2022 by truth7t7

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

No such thing as a 1,000 year regeneration of this earth by fire found in scripture

You can ignore Revelation 20 as some do. But your ignoring it will not prevent it from coming.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You can ignore Revelation 20 as some do. But your ignoring it will not prevent it from coming.

Revelation Chapter 20, states absolutely nothing about this earth being regenerated by fire for 1,000 years

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

[transmogrified]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:47 AM, iamlamad said:

Why would Paul then write that God will set no appointments for us with His wrath, if the Day and His wrath are not in some way connected with the rapture?

  God's wrath is evident during the tribulation but it is on sinners, not on saints. He cannot rapture someone without the resurrection happens first...the resurrection happens on the last day...not before the tribulation....John 6 provides no resurrection for any believer before the last day...saying it pertains to Jews is not a valid answer...the reason no valid answer is given is because pre could no longer be pre trib. 

Pre trib must have another resurrection before the last day to still be pre trib...but the only resurrection for all believers is at the last day...saying Paul mentioned the rapture before he talked about God's wrath and then saying God has not appointed us unto wrath and then talked about the Day of the Lord does not mean there is a resurrection before the last day. The only resurrection for believers takes place on the last day...it does not matter that Paul mentioned the rapture before talking about not being appointed unto wrath..this is all imaginations that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God, and should be cast down instead of entertained.

On 3/30/2022 at 7:38 AM, iamlamad said:

There is ORDER in what Paul wrote. There is ORDER in what John wrote in Revelation. There is ORDER in what Jesus said in His end-time discourse.

Yes, the order Paul said was Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming...he did not say Christ the first fruits, then some at his second coming, then the rest at his third coming.'

Yes, there is order in what John wrote in Revelation...At the 7th Trumpet was the time of the dead that they should be judged and give reward to his servants the prophets, the saints, and them that fear his name, both small and great..' He did not say 'Before the tribulation is the time of the dead that they should be judged for the church age saints, and then at the 7th Trumpet it will be the time of the dead for the tribulation saints and the Old Testament saints and the two witnesses...'

Yes there is order in what Jesus said in his end time discourse...He is talking to the disciples when he says for them to pray they might escape all these things, but he is not talking to to these same disciples when he says they will see the abomination of desolation, and he is not talking to these same disciples  when he tells them about the fig tree. This is non sense.

On 3/30/2022 at 7:38 AM, iamlamad said:

Of course Jesus will bring the spirits of those who has passed with him first, so they can join with their new, resurrected body. That is the proper order. The dead will rise first, before those who are alive are caught up. That is the written order.

Yes, and seeing we are looking at the written order, we can find WHEN this resurrection takes place and see that it will happen on the last day, not before the tribulation. 

On 3/30/2022 at 7:38 AM, iamlamad said:

And yes, wrath will follow the rapture events. That is the way Paul and John wrote it. Why try to rewrite scripture to fit some theory? It is much better to form a theory from scripture AS WRITTEN. 

Paul said we are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

The foundation is not just the apostles, not just the prophets, but apostles, prophets and Jesus Christ...What Jesus said in John 6 is not included in what you are putting forth...What John said in Rec. 11:18 is not included in what you are presenting.

The resurrection of the dead is a principle doctrine in Hebrews 6...it is foundational principle of the Doctrine of Christ. Jesus was telling us WHO would be resurrected and WHEN they would be resurrected in John 6. Although this is foundational, and although it is written, it is not what Pre trib is building on.
The wheat and the tares both grow together until the harvest...there is only one harvest and it is at the end of the age...there is no harvest before the end of the age. The good and bad fish are gathered one time at the end of the age...there is no gathering of any fish before the end of the age. Jesus did not say there was another resurrection for anybody before the last day...he didn't say there would be a two part wheat harvest...he didn't let down the net and get some of the good fish, and then let down the net again later and get the rest of the good fish...
These analogies can not be shuffled off to the Jews...No. The wheat is the children of the kingdom...these are the saints of God...the tares are the children of the devil..the harvest is the end of the age...And remember an invalid response to these scriptures is just like no response...just because it is said 'he is talking about the Jews being resurrected make absolutely no sense...the definitions he gave are not specific to Jews...so what do you have? A pre trib doctrine that is not build on what Jesus said in multiple places...he is the chief corner stone that is being rejected for the sake of Pre trib...these scriptures are very easy to understand...it is not because I put more weight on them than some other scriptures.. It is recognizing the key position Jesus has as the chief corner stone...In other words, you have prophets  on one part of the wall, then it goes to the corner stone who is Jesus, then it turns and goes to the apostles....what does that mean? it means Jesus is touching both prophets and apostles, and if you reject him it dissociates you from both the apostles and prophets and you are not getting the true perspective. But if you accept him, it puts you in touch with both the apostles and prophets in their true position. 

We need to keep dealing with the foundational doctrine of the resurrection. Like I was saying...without the chief corner stone in its right position, what Paul and the prophets said will not be understood properly...for example, when you are reading Paul about the resurrection or the rapture, but not understanding the time frame in which it must occur, you are not getting the true picture...like when you read 1 Thess. 4 and it says 'the dead in Christ will rise first', it does not say in parenthesis, (but remember this is going to happen on the last day) No. It doesn't say it right there so just reading it in isolation, you don't know when these events will happen, only that they are happening...but when you incorporate what Jesus said about WHEN and WHO will be raised on the last day, then it is no longer a matter of you trying to come up with an idea of when it will happen...is this happening at the 6th seal? Is this happening before the tribulation? Maybe its happening on the 3rd vial at the 5th seal in the middle of the week on March the 19th. And then Fred says, no, no, you got it all wrong...its on the 5th of November at the opening of the 2nd seal just before sundown....See what I mean? Taking Jesus for what he says, clears up all these misunderstandings and you have something solid to work with whereas rejecting what he said leaves you to your own imaginations.

Blessings to you - Gary

 

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation Chapter 20, states absolutely nothing about this earth being regenerated by fire for 1,000 years

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

No, but we don't (or shouldn't) form doctrine from isolated verses. Rev. 20 most certainly tells us there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

These verses give us a strong hint of when the regeneration with fire will begin.

Of course the fire won't last for the thousand years! 

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

No, but we don't (or shouldn't) form doctrine from isolated verses. Rev. 20 most certainly tells us there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

These verses give us a strong hint of when the regeneration with fire will begin.

Of course the fire won't last for the thousand years! 

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, this earth will be dissolved by fire (The End)

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, this earth will be dissolved by fire (The End)

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Jesus won't be happy that you have STOLEN His 1000 year reign on earth.

[Heleadethme]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:00 AM, iamlamad said:

There can be no doubt, every human left alive to enter the millennial kingdom will believe in Jesus Christ and will KNOW He is God.

Human beings left alive..?

Mat 13:39-43

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

1Th 5:1-4

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Human beings left alive..?

Mat 13:39-43

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

1Th 5:1-4

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

YOu imgine Jesus' millennial kingdom will be empty: He will be king over none?