R. Hartono Posted January 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) What is the meaning of the above Rev 13:10 ? Could it apply to the people who organize resistance against government authorities that support the beast one world government ? By arresting and charging NWO pawns for violating their nation's sovereignity ? And put the traitors of their nation who support NWO into jail ? Which means their resistance against NWO supporting government and police officers watching citizens will be put into captivity later ? I mean such resistance against rulers like this : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10456147/Justin-Trudeau-flees-secret-location-50-000-Freedom-Convoy-truckers-hit-Ottawa.html Edited February 5, 2022 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,008 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,420 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/13/2022 at 11:31 PM, R. Hartono said: What is the meaning of the above Rev 13:10 ? First off I must admit that the first part of verse 10 is difficult. I will venture my understanding in the full knowledge that many might not agree. In Revelation, because it is the consummation of the Bible, we must dig deep into what has gone before. And it is here, in our appreciation of the history in the Bible, that views are different, and which produce different viewpoints in Revelation. The background of Chapter 13 is sown Israel's lawlessness and subsequent deportation. The House of Israel (the 10 northern Tribes) and the House of Judah (Judah and Benjamin) were punished by other Nations. This is God's way. It is promised in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. If Israel broke the law and despised the chastening of the Lord, He would send foreigners to carry Israel off out of their Land to scatter them among all nations. When Nebuchadnezzar came down to take Jerusalem, God tells the prophet to advise Judah that He (Jehovah) has given them over to the king of Babylon and that if they wanted to survive, them and their city, they must obey and submit to Nebuchadnezzar. Of course, Judah refused the prophet and God's Words, and were slaughtered in their thousands and the rest carried off to Babylon while Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and its Temple. The scene in Revelation 13 is a repeat. After nearly 2,000 years of Christ being preached in all Nations, we have the following situation; The bulk of the Nations have refused Him with disdain. The name of Jesus is a joke and a profanity The Jews have refused Him, hated Him, attributed His miracles to Beelzebub, and persecuted and killed His disciples The Church has backslidden from a former glory and lies in ruins as Revelation 2 & 3 show Into the middle of this rejection of the true Savior comes a Gentile king who, with great power, charisma and the backing of the kings of the earth. The Nations readily embrace this man. This man - the Beast is God's enemy. He claims deity, blasphemes God and all who dwell in heaven, takes authority over all men and puts himself into the Holy of Holies of a newly built Temple in Jerusalem. But while he is God's enemy, he plays into the hand of God Who is over all. He is actually God's SERVANT - just as Nebuchadnezzar was. The Nations and the Nation of Israel wanted their "Caesar" and now they get him. But at al times, Jehovah is in control and no king takes his throne without God. Now, just as the rest of the bible shows, not all men agree with who is king. For many reasons some men disagree with the powers that be and oppose them. The Beast's regime is no different. He must get mankind to take a mark of loyalty and allegiance. Some will refuse and lose their lives because of it. And as this despot's rule continues, his utter evil and disregard for other men will start more opposition. Finally, even the saints of verse 7 might decide to oppose. But this is God's choice. Just as Romans and Titus inform us, ALL POWER is of God and it is given to the rest of men to submit (Rom.13:1-3, Tit.3:1). Verse 10 of Revelation 13 informs men that if they resist the Beast they will fail. If the form a revolutionary government and take hostages, they will be taken hostage. If they kidnap a dignitary they will be kidnapped. If they turn to arms against the Beast, they will be killed. If they resist they will be overcome. God has "given" the Beast 7 years of which the last 42 months are his final act. Though the principalities and powers scheme and plan, God remains in control and He will end the Beast's reign at Armageddon. Until then, God gives him his chance and upholds his reign. 20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding (Da 2:20–21) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/13/2022 at 4:31 PM, R. Hartono said: What is the meaning of the above Rev 13:10 ? The entire verse: If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10 It is a clear call for the saints to persevere. We know from Daniel 7:21 and Rev 13:7 that the man of sin will prevail against the saints. It will be futile to take up arms and impossible to escape the dragnet of the mark and image (unless divinely hidden or sealed). Our blessed hope is eternal life in Christ and when it's time lay down our earthly lives, it's time. It's not a defeat. It's a victory over the world that culminates in the return of Jesus and being raised immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,742 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 308 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 Take it in context with the rest of the verse and with what is going on in the rest of the chapter. If here is where is the patience of the saints, then those who are being taken captive, and those who are being killed, are the saints, who must endure this tribulation. The beast's members who will be leading the saints into captivity and killing some, will likewise experience the same fate. Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 If we back up a bit and read from, say verse 7 on..... we see that the Beast (Antichrist) has been given authority to war against the saints and overcome them. And also he has been given authority over every tribe, people, tongue and nation. All who dwell on the face of the earth will worship him....except those whose names are written in the Book of Life. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. So it is in this context that verse 10 comes: "He that leadeth into captivity"...... This person (?) leads people into captivity. The antichrist has been given authority, is it "he" who leads people into captivity?.... Or: Perhaps these are fallen away, once upon a time church goers, who lead people astray (spiritually)? There are many people with the mindset, that "well if I'm going down, you're coming with me" "He that killeth with the sword". Could this be the same people who try and brainwash others with falsities, untruths, by manipulating God's Word...... Eph 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) On 1/13/2022 at 2:31 PM, R. Hartono said: What is the meaning of the above Rev 13:10 ? It's very simple, the scripture gives extra emphasis to the reader to pay attention "Important" "If any man have an ear, let him hear" The ground rules are set for (The Beast) and his Kingdom, if they move to jail or kill the believer, they in return will be jailed or killed, Gods divine protection of the believers during the tribulation Revelation 13:9-10KJV 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, JoeCanada said: If we back up a bit and read from, say verse 7 on..... we see that the Beast (Antichrist) has been given authority to war against the saints and overcome them. And also he has been given authority over every tribe, people, tongue and nation. All who dwell on the face of the earth will worship him....except those whose names are written in the Book of Life. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. So it is in this context that verse 10 comes: "He that leadeth into captivity"...... This person (?) leads people into captivity. The antichrist has been given authority, is it "he" who leads people into captivity?.... Or: Perhaps these are fallen away, once upon a time church goers, who lead people astray (spiritually)? There are many people with the mindset, that "well if I'm going down, you're coming with me" "He that killeth with the sword". Could this be the same people who try and brainwash others with falsities, untruths, by manipulating God's Word...... Eph 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Something to think about. The "Saints" overcome and killed are the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation chapter 11, not Christian believers as you suggest When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony, they will be overcome and killed, as the final hours of earth's existence unfolds Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, AdHoc said: Verse 10 of Revelation 13 informs men that if they resist the Beast they will fail. If the form a revolutionary government and take hostages, they will be taken hostage. If they kidnap a dignitary they will be kidnapped. If they turn to arms against the Beast, they will be killed. If they resist they will be overcome. God has "given" the Beast 7 years of which the last 42 months are his final act. Though the principalities and powers scheme and plan, God remains in control and He will end the Beast's reign at Armageddon. Until then, God gives him his chance and upholds his reign. 20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding (Da 2:20–21) It states no such thing, "just the opposite", as you push false fear in propaganda, Tim La Haye (Left Behind) Sci-Fi "it's the patience and faith of the saints", the Church on earth is divinely protected The ground rules are set for (The Beast) and his Kingdom, if they move to jail or kill the believer, they in return will be jailed or killed, Gods divine protection of the believers during the tribulation Revelation 13:9-10KJV 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,008 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,420 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 40 minutes ago, truth7t7 said: It states no such thing, "just the opposite", as you push false fear in propaganda, Tim La Haye (Left Behind) Sci-Fi it's the patience and faith of the saints, the Church on earth is divinely protected The ground rules are set for (The Beast) and his Kingdom, if they move to jail or kill the believer, they in return will be jailed or killed, Gods divine protection of the believers during the tribulation Revelation 13:9-10KJV 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. If scripture says that the Beast makes war with the saints and OVERCOMES them, then it means just that. Fear or no fear, if a saint is on earth at the reign of the beast he/she will be overcome. What is under debate is whether "ANY MAN" (v.9) will resist, and if he resists, will he succeed? We debate verses 10, not verse 7. The purpose of this Forum, and many like it, is for the interested Christian to debate obscure scriptures. If they get it wrong they can learn and, IN TIME come to the knowledge of the truth. But if scripture says "they are overcome" and somebody says that that is false, this is no mistake. It is a blatant overthrow of God's Word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 21, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AdHoc said: If scripture says that the Beast makes war with the saints and OVERCOMES them, then it means just that. Fear or no fear, if a saint is on earth at the reign of the beast he/she will be overcome. What is under debate is whether "ANY MAN" (v.9) will resist, and if he resists, will he succeed? We debate verses 10, not verse 7. The purpose of this Forum, and many like it, is for the interested Christian to debate obscure scriptures. If they get it wrong they can learn and, IN TIME come to the knowledge of the truth. But if scripture says "they are overcome" and somebody says that that is false, this is no mistake. It is a blatant overthrow of God's Word. More Tim Lahaye (Left Behind) Sci-Fi The "Saints" overcome and killed are the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation chapter 11, not Christian believers as you suggest When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony, they will be overcome and killed, as the final hours of earth's existence unfolds Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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