Revelation Chapter 13 -

[Christ's Free Servant]

I believe this "little horn" of Daniel 7:8 "before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things," to be the position of our President.

Consider this verse -

• Rev 13: 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies . . .
  

I touched on the application of this I believe in my "Is Amereica Missing in Prophecy" thread and show how there is a connection with Roosevelt and his "speaking great things."

However, concerning the "three of the first horns plucked up by the roots?" If you remember the birth of America, there were three European countries (ten horns) that sought to lay claim to some this soil - France, England, and Spain. Yet these three were not able to take any root here . . . were they?

Again, where did America come from? Basically Europe . . . England to be exact. The little horn "which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows . . . and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Blindseeker,

This reminded me of something I posted on June 27th, which I believe was from the Lord. I don't know if there is a connection between this and what you are talking about, but I did find it interesting that you mention both Pres Bush and Pres Roosevelt and so did this:

Yesterday morning I caught a glimpse of the news on TV in the morning while I was trying to wake my brain up in order to have my quiet time with God. Evidently a very large, stately tree near the White House toppled over during a storm. The tree had evidently been planted during Teddy Roosevelt's term of office (100 years ago). Fox news reported that they did not understand what caused the tree to just topple over. I sensed God telling me that this was a sign of what was going to happen to our nation; our government. I also saw on the news during that short period of time yesterday morning how vast the wildfires are out west, killing over 100,000 acres of greenery. Then, I turned the news off, prayed and read the word (I read where I had last left off in my reading):

Zechariah 11:1-3:

"Open your doors, O Lebanon,

so that fire may devour your cedars!

Wail, O pine tree, for the cedar has fallen;

the stately trees are ruined!

Wail, oaks of Bashan;

the dense forest has been cut down!

Listen to the wail of the shepherds;

their rich pastures are destroyed!

Listen to the roar of the lions;

the lush thicket of the Jordan is ruined!"

I wanted to understand the meaning of these verses, so I researched it in two different commentaries:

1) "The pride of these two, the cedars of Lebanon and the oaks of Bashan, is to be destroyed... The two means of destruction of trees, fire and axe, are irresistible as God prepares the way for the return of his people... Even the lush thicket of the Jordan does not escape the terrifying arrival of the Lord in delivering judgment."

2) "Some interpret this brief poem as a taunt song anticipating the lament that will be sung over the destruction of the nations' power and arrogance, represented by the cedar, the pine and the oak. Their kings are represented by the shepherds and the lions... Now the scene is one of desolation for the land, followed by the threat of judgment and disaster for both land and people."

It appeared to me as though what the Lord was showing me, represented by the huge tree that was toppled at the White House and the fires destroying thousands of acres of land out west, is the destruction of the pride and arrogance of our nation, soon to come.

Later on I read a news article on-line about Teddy Roosevelt. It was called:

Roosevelt's legacy shapes U.S. of today

26th president's activism changed role of government

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/25/roosevelt.tm/

"He was the first president to urge wholeheartedly that the U.S. accept its role as a global power. The "imperial presidencies" that followed his, from Franklin Roosevelt to Lyndon Johnson to George W. Bush, all owe something to his example."

The tree that fell was planted during Teddy's presidency, so I wondered if perhaps God was saying that this "global power" is what is going to topple and this "imperial presidency." I also found an article that included a blib about the tree on FoxNews on-line today:

"The tree that fell near President Bush's front door was also historic

[BlindSeeker]

. . . I believe God was showing me that our nation, our government, our economy, and our leaders are about to fall, just like that tree, and that our people and land will be destroyed just like those fires - "the threat of judgment and disaster for both land and people." And, all this is going to happen because of the pride and the power and arrogance of our nation and its leaders. This is not the only reason for the judgment of God, but it is what the Lord is showing me right now.

I believe you are correct.

I have been studying this for nearly 20 years and have watch many things I felt the scriptures hinted at come to pass . . .

By the way . . . 2007 will be 40 years since the 6 day war in 1967 when Israel regain possession of the Temple Mount . . . and Bush's 7th year of Presidency . . .

1967 is also 2300 years since Alexander the Great (he-goat) took control over Israel in 332-333 BC . . . inote worthy considering Daniel 8:13,14

[Christ's Free Servant]

. . . I believe God was showing me that our nation, our government, our economy, and our leaders are about to fall, just like that tree, and that our people and land will be destroyed just like those fires - "the threat of judgment and disaster for both land and people." And, all this is going to happen because of the pride and the power and arrogance of our nation and its leaders. This is not the only reason for the judgment of God, but it is what the Lord is showing me right now.

I believe you are correct.

I have been studying this for nearly 20 years and have watch many things I felt the scriptures hinted at come to pass . . .

By the way . . . 2007 will be 40 years since the 6 day war in 1967 when Israel regain possession of the Temple Mount . . . and Bush's 7th year of Presidency . . .

1967 is also 2300 years since Alexander the Great (he-goat) took control over Israel in 332-333 BC . . . inote worthy considering Daniel 8:13,14

Thank you for that input, Blindseeker!

[RND]

My answers to your questions in BOLD

The little horn is the papal system. . .

. . . It should be emphasized that the little horn represents a system, a church-state combination, a religious power that would grasp civil power to enforce certain beliefs and practices. Because the Papacy did use such civil power as the prophecy predicted does not by any means bring individual Roman Catholics under condemnation. Multitudes of Roman Catholics have followed Christ as best they knew, and many have exhibited a true devotion to the cross. But the papal system during its years of supremacy did singularly fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 7.

Assuming you were correct about Daniel 7:24, who were the "three of the first horns plucked up by the roots?"

The Arian Kingdoms: the Burgundians, Vandals, and Ostrogoths

How does that apply to the 8th beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13 and goes into destruction as noted in Rev. 13-19?

There aren't 8 Beasts, Only 4. The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel. The beast in Revelation 13 shares traits common to those named in Daniel.

There are more players in this sene that need to be identified than just Rome . . .

Who is the woman (mother)?

A woman in prophecy typically refers to the church. If you are referring to Revelation 12 the RCC, with a flood of lies and persecution tried to kill off the church. They failed.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman (The church) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child,(Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. (Jesus' resurrection)

6 And the woman (church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (1260 days=papal rule between 568AD and 1798AD)

Her daughters (harlots)?

All the church's that teach the doctrines of the false church, the RCC.

Revelation 17:5

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman (the false church, the RCC) drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: (The dark ages persecution) and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Who are the 7 heads?

The dragon's seven heads are said to have seven crowns. These are the crowns of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia and Rome. Seven crowns, seven heads, and the last head of Rome bearing ten horns, of which three of these; the Ostrogoths, Vandals and Heruli, were uprooted, to give the papal beast its power and its seat. These are the seven heads and ten horns of the dragon.

The 10 Horns?

These ten nations are the same as the ten toes of Nebucheddezar's image in Daniel 2.

I do, however, personally believe that 2 Thes. 2:3 does speak of the rise of the Papacy . . . after that which prevented its rise to power was removed (the fall of the Roman Empire).

I hope that information is helpful, God Bless.

Edited July 14, 2006 by RND

[BlindSeeker]

How does that apply to the 8th beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13 and goes into destruction as noted in Rev. 13-19?

There aren't 8 Beasts, Only 4. The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel. The beast in Revelation 13 shares traits common to those named in Daniel.

• Re 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
  

[RND]

How does that apply to the 8th beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13 and goes into destruction as noted in Rev. 13-19?

There aren't 8 Beasts, Only 4. The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel. The beast in Revelation 13 shares traits common to those named in Daniel.

• Re 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
  

I was referring to the Beast of Revelation 13, which I thought we were discussing. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you post.

The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel.

[wordsower]

The little horn represents the Papacy.

Really,the SDA conference is going to have to start watching the news.

Hello........the Catholic church is about bankrupt with pedophile suits, the membership has dropped drastically and did you notice......the Muslims keep Friday as their holy day.

Now can you see them bowing to the pope to keep Sunday? HA! The nukes would fly then for sure. They aren't afraid to die ya know?

Muslims have one agenda, to take complete control of the world at any cost.

Sounds like we have our beast right there.

[BlindSeeker]

I was referring to the Beast of Revelation 13, which I thought we were discussing. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you post.

The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel.

So do you think the beast in Chapter 17 is not the same beast?

[RND]

I was referring to the Beast of Revelation 13, which I thought we were discussing. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you post.

The beast in Revelation 13 is an amalgomation of the four beasts in Daniel.

So do you think the beast in Chapter 17 is not the same beast?

Yes, as it has been explained to me the beast mentioned in Rev 17:11 is the same beast in Rev. 13. As it has been explained to me, the phraseology and terminology are roughly the same.

[RND]

The little horn represents the Papacy.

Really,the SDA conference is going to have to start watching the news.

Hello........the Catholic church is about bankrupt with pedophile suits, the membership has dropped drastically and did you notice......the Muslims keep Friday as their holy day.

Now can you see them bowing to the pope to keep Sunday? HA! The nukes would fly then for sure. They aren't afraid to die ya know?

Muslims have one agenda, to take complete control of the world at any cost.

Sounds like we have our beast right there.

I'm quite comfortable which the beliefs of SDAism. The Catholic church is far from monetarily bankrupt (however, I agree it has taken the cake on immorality), has the most worldwide members of any "Christian" demoniation, has successfully begun to return protestant churches under it's umbrella, fold and influence. The ecumenical movement, new ageism and spiritualism in the world today are a direct result of hieretical doctrine from the Catholic leadership in Rome and the Muslim leaders round the world routinely 'bow' down to popery.

Have you been fooled by Satan to believe that Popery and Romanism is dead?