Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[iamlamad]

Since neither group believes that John 14 will take place at the rapture event, when will it take place? 

I am not looking for an argument, just input. Please include a reason for your belief.

[OneLight]

John 14 has nothing to do with the rapture.  Please, if you would, provide the scripture you are referring to.

[Diaste]

Read John 14. 

I don't understand.

[Last Daze]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:56 PM, iamlamad said:

Since neither group believes that John 14 will take place at the rapture event, when will it take place? 

I am not looking for an argument, just input. Please include a reason for your belief.

Can you verify whether you meant to say John 14 or not?

[iamlamad]

15 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Can you verify whether you meant to say John 14 or not?

Yes, Jesus went to build homes for us, and one day will come and get us. It should be understood by the context that after He gets us, He will take us to the homes He has built. That is the way I read it.

[iamlamad]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:40 PM, OneLight said:

John 14 has nothing to do with the rapture.  Please, if you would, provide the scripture you are referring to.

I think we all know that Jesus went to build homes for us. That is the scripture. One day He will come and get us and take us to those homes.

I disagree. I think John 14 gives us the direction after we are caught up to Him in the clouds.

Edited April 20, 2022 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

So far, no one has told me when they expect this passage to take place. WHEN will Jesus take us to the homes He has built?

Or will He expect us to find our home on our own?

[OneLight]

57 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

So far, no one has told me when they expect this passage to take place. WHEN will Jesus take us to the homes He has built?

Or will He expect us to find our home on our own?

I won't build a doctrine or base my theology one one sentence of scripture.  The fact that Jesus said it will happen, than that's all I need to know.  The details you seek are left out ... best to leave it that way.

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So far, no one has told me when they expect this passage to take place. WHEN will Jesus take us to the homes He has built?

Or will He expect us to find our home on our own?

OK. I'll try, and my hope is that plain English grammar prevails.

John Chapter 1 introduces "Bethel" the House of God from Genesis 28 and Jacob's experience with God. John Chapter 2 shows the Old and the New House of God - the Temple and the Body of Christ. Chapter 3 shows that for the Spirit if God to be at home in the spirit of man (Jn.3:6) Christ must be lifted up like the brass serpent in Numbers 21 because man has a "sin"-nature that blocks God. And John ends with telling us the reason that all was written so that God (and his Life) can get into man - 20:30-31. John is the Book about God preparing the way for man to eat from the Tree of Life - as He had planned in the beginning.

So when we come to Chapter 14, nothing has changed. But our Lord goes into more detail. The first detail to deal with is the word "mansions". It is not an incorrect translation, but it is unfortunate. The Greek word is correctly translate "abode" in verse 23. Why the translators used "Mansions" is a mystery. The second detail to deal with is that "The Father's House" is NEVER heaven in the whole Bible. "Heaven" is His THRONE. The Father's House is FIVE things in the Bible; (i) The Tabernacle of the Wilderness, (ii) Solomon's Temple, (iii) Zerubbabel's Temple, (iv) the Body of Christ, and (v) The Church - 1st Tim.3:15. 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids our private interpretation of scripture, so if we want to be correct, we have to choose one of those FIVE to fit John 14.

Our Lord Jesus teaches His disciples that shortly He would go away and prepare an abode in the father's House for them. And then He would return so that where He WAS at the moment of speaking because it is PRESENT TENSE.

2 In my Father's house are many ABODES: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ... 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Our Lord Jesus says (i) there are many ABODES already, (ii) that some preparation is required, (iii) He will go away a short while to prepare the way, (iv) that He was THEN (in time) "in the Father and the father in Him", and (v) when the preparations were done that His disciples would be in the same place! In verse 20 the destination is written;

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

And this is exactly what our Lord Jesus did. He went His death on Golgotha. He FIRST DESCENDED (Eph.4:8-9) to the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40) and spent three days there. Then, after Three Days He ROSE (upward) and met Mary. He commands Mary not to touch Him because "I am NOT YET ascended to my father". Further, He says that Mary must go and tell His disciples that He was going to His Father and THEIR Father and would come to them after that. About 15 hours later, He appeared to His disciples and says "touch me, handle me!" This indicates that He had been to the Father. He then breathes the Holy Spirit into His disciples. And we know that they had received the Holy Spirit INTO themselves because God cannot be  your "FATHER" unless you were born by Him.

Hebrews 9:11-12 tells us what the Lord did when He went to the Father. It was to present His blood in the heavenly tabernacle. It was His blood that prepared the way to the "ABODES". The father had to accept His sacrifice and approve it. Once He did, Jesus could descend again, return to His disciples as he said He would and the disciple became ABODES in te House of God because "on that day they were in the Father and the FATHER IN THEM.

The only rapture that occurs in John 14 is Christ ascending to the Father, as He said to Mary, and returning. And His death was the "preparing". His resurrection was His proof that sin was put away. His blood was accepted by the Father - all for the House of God - THE CHURCH

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

OK. I'll try, and my hope is that plain English grammar prevails.

John Chapter 1 introduces "Bethel" the House of God from Genesis 28 and Jacob's experience with God. John Chapter 2 shows the Old and the New House of God - the Temple and the Body of Christ. Chapter 3 shows that for the Spirit if God to be at home in the spirit of man (Jn.3:6) Christ must be lifted up like the brass serpent in Numbers 21 because man has a "sin"-nature that blocks God. And John ends with telling us the reason that all was written so that God (and his Life) can get into man - 20:30-31. John is the Book about God preparing the way for man to eat from the Tree of Life - as He had planned in the beginning.

So when we come to Chapter 14, nothing has changed. But our Lord goes into more detail. The first detail to deal with is the word "mansions". It is not an incorrect translation, but it is unfortunate. The Greek word is correctly translate "abode" in verse 23. Why the translators used "Mansions" is a mystery. The second detail to deal with is that "The Father's House" is NEVER heaven in the whole Bible. "Heaven" is His THRONE. The Father's House is FIVE things in the Bible; (i) The Tabernacle of the Wilderness, (ii) Solomon's Temple, (iii) Zerubbabel's Temple, (iv) the Body of Christ, and (v) The Church - 1st Tim.3:15. 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids our private interpretation of scripture, so if we want to be correct, we have to choose one of those FIVE to fit John 14.

Our Lord Jesus teaches His disciples that shortly He would go away and prepare an abode in the father's House for them. And then He would return so that where He WAS at the moment of speaking because it is PRESENT TENSE.

2 In my Father's house are many ABODES: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ... 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Our Lord Jesus says (i) there are many ABODES already, (ii) that some preparation is required, (iii) He will go away a short while to prepare the way, (iv) that He was THEN (in time) "in the Father and the father in Him", and (v) when the preparations were done that His disciples would be in the same place! In verse 20 the destination is written;

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

And this is exactly what our Lord Jesus did. He went His death on Golgotha. He FIRST DESCENDED (Eph.4:8-9) to the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40) and spent three days there. Then, after Three Days He ROSE (upward) and met Mary. He commands Mary not to touch Him because "I am NOT YET ascended to my father". Further, He says that Mary must go and tell His disciples that He was going to His Father and THEIR Father and would come to them after that. About 15 hours later, He appeared to His disciples and says "touch me, handle me!" This indicates that He had been to the Father. He then breathes the Holy Spirit into His disciples. And we know that they had received the Holy Spirit INTO themselves because God cannot be  your "FATHER" unless you were born by Him.

Hebrews 9:11-12 tells us what the Lord did when He went to the Father. It was to present His blood in the heavenly tabernacle. It was His blood that prepared the way to the "ABODES". The father had to accept His sacrifice and approve it. Once He did, Jesus could descend again, return to His disciples as he said He would and the disciple became ABODES in te House of God because "on that day they were in the Father and the FATHER IN THEM.

The only rapture that occurs in John 14 is Christ ascending to the Father, as He said to Mary, and returning. And His death was the "preparing". His resurrection was His proof that sin was put away. His blood was accepted by the Father - all for the House of God - THE CHURCH

Thanks for answering. I think you are reading far more into that simple passage than the Author intended.

1 Do not let your hearts be troubled (distressed, agitated). You believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely on God; believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely also on Me.

2  In My Father’s house there are many dwelling places (homes). If it were not so, I would have told you; for I am going away to prepare a place for you.

3  And when (if) I go and make ready a place for you, I will come back again and will take you to Myself, that where I am you may be also.

4  And [to the place] where I am going, you know the way.

He had just told them He was leaving; I think after He finished, they understood He was going back to heaven - His Father's house. At first, I don't think they did understand. Peter asked Him where. I see no problem in understanding "My Father's house" as where God resides. I think the simplest understanding of this passage is best: one day (if the Lord tarried His coming) they would all go to where Jesus said He was going, and where Peter would later follow. It would be interesting to know if they knew when righteous people died then, they went down, not up. Did they know that after Jesus died and rose again they would go up? Did they know that Abraham's bosom would be emptied?  It is doubtful.

I believe when Jesus told them there were many dwelling places in heaven, they thought "homes." They thought Jesus would go back to heaven and make their homes in preparation for their arrival. I believe it we asked beginning readers to read this, that would be their understanding. 

Jesus said in verse 3, that He WILL come back again and take them to Himself.  The simple understanding is, He would then take them to the homes He prepared for them.

Where "am" Jesus when He comes to catch us up? He is in the air and in a cloud. How can we know what direction He will take from the air? Simple: where "am" Jesus all during the 70th week? He is in heaven.