Who is Resurrected, and When?

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

the DEAD in Christ who go to hell and resurrect when Christ returns

The dead in Christ are in the Lord's presence upon death, your claim they go to Hell is false

2 Corinthians 5:8KJV

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Luke 16:22-25KJV

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Edited January 20, 2023 by truth7t7

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The dead in Christ are in the Lord's presence upon death, your claim they go to Hell is false

So you believe we follow Him raised up in our spiritual body.  Me too.  

Some people refuse to believe what is written and add a bunch of stuff to what is written and have us going to heaven without one.  

And THAT WASN'T A CLAIM,  that was me asking a question.  

 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Edited January 20, 2023 by DeighAnn
from with to without

[DeighAnn]

4 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

So THAT would have been UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, correct?

Jesus brought in a better way RIGHT?   He did what the law could not do, right? 

So what happened 

BEFORE Christ died and was raised up

IS DIFFERENT than what has happened ever since then, RIGHT?

Or do you believe nothing was changed by the work on the cross? (as far as death and resurrection are concerned)

[truth7t7]

8 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

So you believe we follow Him raised up in our spiritual body.  Me too.  

No I don't believe as you do

The resurrection shown in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 takes place on the last day at the second coming, when death is swallowed up in victory (The End)

[truth7t7]

11 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

So THAT would have been UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, correct?

Jesus brought in a better way RIGHT?   He did what the law could not do, right? 

So what happened 

BEFORE Christ died and was raised up

IS DIFFERENT than what has happened ever since then, RIGHT?

Or do you believe nothing was changed by the work on the cross? (as far as death and resurrection are concerned)

Your claim in response has absolutely nothing to do with the fact, a believer is in the Lord's presence upon death, waiting for the last day resurrection at the second coming (The End)

Edited January 20, 2023 by truth7t7

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

Somehow I assumed you and everyone at this site knew who the dead in Christ are. Oh well. 

That's not the real issue. I don't see it as overly complex but there are some subtleties to prophecy that I don't feel are addressed.

It's not that it's not known who the dead in Christ are, or will be, or have been; the question is which dead in Christ are raised in the primary resurrection.

From Rev 7:13-14 and Rev 20:4-6 it doesn't look like every believer from all time. 

And it wouldn't matter, as long as one is resurrected and inherits the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, we/them/they/us, are not lost no matter if resurrected then or 1000 years later. 

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

  9 hours ago, Diaste said:

Because the 2nd death will have power over the one who do not participate in the primary resurrection does not equate with all in the 2nd resurrection dammed for all eternity.

 

[double click failed.  Why do you  think is doesn't equate?  I gave 3 verses that plainly say there will be a resurrection (singular) for the saved and a resurrection (singular) for the unsaved.  Since the resurrection of the Trib martyrs is called the FIRST (of two) resurrections in Rev 20:4-6 and there will be another resurrection 1000 years later, of course they equate. ]

What I said doesn't equate is the idea that the resurrection of the 2nd death, where it has power, does not equate to everyone in the 2nd resurrection as only the eternally dammed. Rev 20:12-15 disputes the idea only the dammed and no one else appears at the GWT. 

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Please explain what you are referring to.  'protos'?  What and when is that?  And what Scripture notes that?  Thanks.  And Jesus noted 2 resurrections in John 5:29, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

The term used in Rev 20:5 is 'protos'. The idea is 'importance', not 1st as in order but first in import.

prótos: first, chief

Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Diaste

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 And Jesus noted 2 resurrections in John 5:29, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

If we consider the entire thought we have two parts to the same resurrection:

28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Verse 28 is the general resurrection of ALL. all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out.

Within that some will find life and some will find death.

This is also mirrored in Rev 20:14-15, and what I have been saying all along. 

those who have done good to the resurrection of life,  are the ones who came out of 'the hour when ALL in the graves will come out'

The same applies to those who have done evil, they come out of the graves at the same hour "when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out" 

This is a single resurrection where both the good and the evil are resurrected and when good and evil are judged, at the same time, after the 1000 years. 

What we see throughout the NT is the resurrection at the last day, the 2nd resurrection. I'm convinced at this time the primary resurrection had not been revealed in full but was mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. 

 

[truth7t7]

46 minutes ago, Diaste said:

That's not the real issue. I don't see it as overly complex but there are some subtleties to prophecy that I don't feel are addressed.

It's not that it's not known who the dead in Christ are, or will be, or have been; the question is which dead in Christ are raised in the primary resurrection.

From Rev 7:13-14 and Rev 20:4-6 it doesn't look like every believer from all time. 

And it wouldn't matter, as long as one is resurrected and inherits the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, we/them/they/us, are not lost no matter if resurrected then or 1000 years later. 

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Actually, there are more than one "last day", depending on what you are talking about.

There will be the "last day" of normal life on earth, which is just before Jesus comes back to earth.  All that will be supernatural.  So all of human history through the Tribulation is included, and the "last day" of that period is just before He comes back.

Then there will be a "last day" of the MK, which ends at the battle of Gog and Magog. 

The resurrection at the last day is the context. That's the only last day in view. I could go on with non sequiturs and say 'last day at work', 'last day of bachelorhood', 'last day of the season', etc., and all would mean the same thing to the discussion, nothing. 

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

Days continue throughout the 1000 year reign as every year the nations come to worship the Lord at the feast of Tabernacles. A year is counted by months, months are counted by weeks, and weeks counted by days. Days continue till after the 1000 years.

And?

IDK, seems self explanatory.

 

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

A deeds based reprieve at the GWT fits in very nicely with the character of God; His mercy, lovingkindness, compassion, not wanting any to perish, etc. 

What "reprieve" at the GWT?  Everyone there are unbelievers and will be judged based on their deeds/works.  Which will determine just how "tolerable" it will be for them for eternity.  Jesus taught that in Matt.

Well...no. If Jesus taught that perhaps you could share the quote?