Daniel 9:25 ... need some thoughts, please.

[Charlie744]

The Jews were taken into captivity beginning on 606 BC (some use 605 BC...).

They would be held captive for exactly 70 years until they would receive the decree from Cyrus in his first year on 536 BC. This would allow them to return to Jerusalem.

The next major time element is 457/6 BC when Artaxerxes would issue his command to restore and build  Jerusalem.

This date 457/6 is used to begin the 70 week prophecy in Daniel 9. From this date there will be 7 - 62 - 1 , or 70 weeks of 7's or 490 years in total that make up this prophecy.

But the question I have yet to answer is why there is a 80 year gap (536 BC to 456 BC) --- the decree to return to Jerusalem and the decree to start the 70 week prophecy.

God could easily of selected 473 BC or 536 BC or 527 BC, or any other date to begin the start of the 70 week prophecy.... Why did He choose 457 BC?  He does nothing without a perfect purpose and timing....He does not due random or …..

 

Any thoughts would  be greatly appreciated, Charlie

 

 

[Diaste]

Because the prophecy said, "...to restore Jerusalem..." not "...to return to Jerusalem..."?

[Charlie744]

53 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Because the prophecy said, "...to restore Jerusalem..." not "...to return to Jerusalem..."?

I understand but why the date of 457?

 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I understand but why the date of 457?

 

I have heard, a long time ago, that Jesus time in Jerusalem was in perfect timing with the laws and rulers of the Roman Empire. Maybe that's why. I don't know for sure. Maybe those 12 disciples had to born, just those specific 12 and no one else ever, before Jesus could minister to the world, and God of course knew when. 

Maybe it was Mary that had to exist. Perhaps Egypt had be liberal enough to accept refugees. 

Probably all of the above and more. 

[Charlie744]

15 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I have heard, a long time ago, that Jesus time in Jerusalem was in perfect timing with the laws and rulers of the Roman Empire. Maybe that's why. I don't know for sure. Maybe those 12 disciples had to born, just those specific 12 and no one else ever, before Jesus could minister to the world, and God of course knew when. 

Maybe it was Mary that had to exist. Perhaps Egypt had be liberal enough to accept refugees. 

Probably all of the above and more. 

Thanks for your thoughts!  Here is how I am looking at this and not making much headway. If you look into the post exile period from 536 BC to say 408 BC... that is where we might focus since there really is nothing given to us after that period up to the end of the 69th week.

So, the Cyrus decree in 536 BC allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem (this is addressed the "people" side of the restoration). Cyrus was also connected with "building a house" for the Lord. Although he did not physically get involved with the rebuilding of the Temple, he supported its rebuilding.  So, when the first large wave of Jews under Zerubbabel returned they immediately began to rebuild the Temple. Despite the activities by many to try and prevent them from succeeding, the Temple was finished in 515 BC. This is 21 years after they returned from Babylon. 

However, Gabriel's -prophecy stated the 70 weeks would not begin until there was a command to restore and build Jerusalem - not the Temple (of course this does not mean the Temple is not the most important part of Jerusalem, but God is quite specific and He purposely mentioned these two conditions (restore and build Jerusalem).

So far, we have addressed or accounted for the return of the Jews (people), the Temple, but clearly there are a few other things that required to be rebuild and restored - the walls (security), the streets and square (ability to be able to get to and worship at the Temple), the city (entire infrastructure which includes everything they would need to conduct their daily life activities, including their ability to self govern). 

So Ezra arrives in 457 BC after being giving the command by King Artaxerxes to "restore and build" Jerusalem. So there it is.. the starting point for the 70 weeks. This is where almost all interpretations state is the beginning of the 7 weeks (first 49 years) where the walls and the city will be built and restored.   Now, this does not mean the city was not worked on at all prior to Ezra but he also came to address the "spiritual" side of the Jews living there - they were not doing a very good job of keeping the Sabbath and the feast days, etc. What good is a rebuild Temple and city without obeying and worshipping their God? So he would attack both of these problems. Then along comes Nehemiah who comes to address the walls and the city construction and they are completed in 444 BC. So, how can the first 49 years be attributed to the rebuild and restoring of the walls / city / streets if we use the starting ate of 457 BC and the finishing date of 444 BC? Clearly there was work being done before and after Ezra. But it is accepted the first 7  weeks begin at 457 BC to 408 BC., then the 69 weeks begin.

There were two things returned and completed after 536 BC - the people and the Temple with the Temple having the date of 515 BC. Why or what happened to the 80 years between 536 BC and 457 BC ? Something is missing here... there seems to be a whole story missing here that could speak to or answer why the 457 BC date was selected to begin the count of the 70 weeks prophecy. God could have easily made the starting date 478 BC and added another 21 years to the 70 weeks and called in a 91 week prophecy...

Yes, He certainly made the numbers fit exactly as He needed to so the 69 weeks ended exactly one day before He was baptized in the Jordan, but He could have used any combination of numbers and events after the exile... so, my question is what was necessary for the start of the 70 weeks prophecy to be 457 BC when there were 80 years available after the exile?

Hope this makes sense, Charlie

Once again, God does not do random, coincidence or it just worked out that way....He always has a perfect reason and timing for everything... Since I began my study on Daniel I can assure you there are many "corners cut" or misinterpretations accepted because they are simply so, so difficult to unpack or uncover.  Charlie

 

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your thoughts!  Here is how I am looking at this and not making much headway. If you look into the post exile period from 536 BC to say 408 BC... that is where we might focus since there really is nothing given to us after that period up to the end of the 69th week.

So, the Cyrus decree in 536 BC allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem (this is addressed the "people" side of the restoration). Cyrus was also connected with "building a house" for the Lord. Although he did not physically get involved with the rebuilding of the Temple, he supported its rebuilding.  So, when the first large wave of Jews under Zerubbabel returned they immediately began to rebuild the Temple. Despite the activities by many to try and prevent them from succeeding, the Temple was finished in 515 BC. This is 21 years after they returned from Babylon. 

However, Gabriel's -prophecy stated the 70 weeks would not begin until there was a command to restore and build Jerusalem - not the Temple (of course this does not mean the Temple is not the most important part of Jerusalem, but God is quite specific and He purposely mentioned these two conditions (restore and build Jerusalem).

So far, we have addressed or accounted for the return of the Jews (people), the Temple, but clearly there are a few other things that required to be rebuild and restored - the walls (security), the streets and square (ability to be able to get to and worship at the Temple), the city (entire infrastructure which includes everything they would need to conduct their daily life activities, including their ability to self govern). 

So Ezra arrives in 457 BC after being giving the command by King Artaxerxes to "restore and build" Jerusalem. So there it is.. the starting point for the 70 weeks. This is where almost all interpretations state is the beginning of the 7 weeks (first 49 years) where the walls and the city will be built and restored.   Now, this does not mean the city was not worked on at all prior to Ezra but he also came to address the "spiritual" side of the Jews living there - they were not doing a very good job of keeping the Sabbath and the feast days, etc. What good is a rebuild Temple and city without obeying and worshipping their God? So he would attack both of these problems. Then along comes Nehemiah who comes to address the walls and the city construction and they are completed in 444 BC. So, how can the first 49 years be attributed to the rebuild and restoring of the walls / city / streets if we use the starting ate of 457 BC and the finishing date of 444 BC? Clearly there was work being done before and after Ezra. But it is accepted the first 7  weeks begin at 457 BC to 408 BC., then the 69 weeks begin.

There were two things returned and completed after 536 BC - the people and the Temple with the Temple having the date of 515 BC. Why or what happened to the 80 years between 536 BC and 457 BC ? Something is missing here... there seems to be a whole story missing here that could speak to or answer why the 457 BC date was selected to begin the count of the 70 weeks prophecy. God could have easily made the starting date 478 BC and added another 21 years to the 70 weeks and called in a 91 week prophecy...

Yes, He certainly made the numbers fit exactly as He needed to so the 69 weeks ended exactly one day before He was baptized in the Jordan, but He could have used any combination of numbers and events after the exile... so, my question is what was necessary for the start of the 70 weeks prophecy to be 457 BC when there were 80 years available after the exile?

Hope this makes sense, Charlie

Once again, God does not do random, coincidence or it just worked out that way....He always has a perfect reason and timing for everything... Since I began my study on Daniel I can assure you there are many "corners cut" or misinterpretations accepted because they are simply so, so difficult to unpack or uncover.  Charlie

 

Have you considered reading "The coming Prince" by sir Robert Anderson. He approached the matter like the Scotland Yard Superintendent that he was. The years fit perfectly in his calculation.

God bless your search.

[Charlie744]

50 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Have you considered reading "The coming Prince" by sir Robert Anderson. He approached the matter like the Scotland Yard Superintendent that he was. The years fit perfectly in his calculation.

God bless your search.

Thank you, I will look into this, Charlie 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your thoughts!  Here is how I am looking at this and not making much headway. If you look into the post exile period from 536 BC to say 408 BC... that is where we might focus since there really is nothing given to us after that period up to the end of the 69th week.

You are referring to missing time. Or time for which there is no account. Yes? Sorry, I'm slow sometimes.

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, the Cyrus decree in 536 BC allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem (this is addressed the "people" side of the restoration). Cyrus was also connected with "building a house" for the Lord. Although he did not physically get involved with the rebuilding of the Temple, he supported its rebuilding.  So, when the first large wave of Jews under Zerubbabel returned they immediately began to rebuild the Temple. Despite the activities by many to try and prevent them from succeeding, the Temple was finished in 515 BC. This is 21 years after they returned from Babylon. 

Sure. I have read as much here and there. 

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

However, Gabriel's -prophecy stated the 70 weeks would not begin until there was a command to restore and build Jerusalem - not the Temple (of course this does not mean the Temple is not the most important part of Jerusalem, but God is quite specific and He purposely mentioned these two conditions (restore and build Jerusalem).

Yes, the City of Jerusalem. Not the Temple. The Temple was already standing. 

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So far, we have addressed or accounted for the return of the Jews (people), the Temple, but clearly there are a few other things that required to be rebuild and restored - the walls (security), the streets and square (ability to be able to get to and worship at the Temple), the city (entire infrastructure which includes everything they would need to conduct their daily life activities, including their ability to self govern). 

Yes. And as we will see the Jews had many enemies that needed to be dealt with first.

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So Ezra arrives in 457 BC after being giving the command by King Artaxerxes to "restore and build" Jerusalem. So there it is.. the starting point for the 70 weeks. This is where almost all interpretations state is the beginning of the 7 weeks (first 49 years) where the walls and the city will be built and restored.   Now, this does not mean the city was not worked on at all prior to Ezra but he also came to address the "spiritual" side of the Jews living there - they were not doing a very good job of keeping the Sabbath and the feast days, etc. What good is a rebuild Temple and city without obeying and worshipping their God? So he would attack both of these problems. Then along comes Nehemiah who comes to address the walls and the city construction and they are completed in 444 BC. So, how can the first 49 years be attributed to the rebuild and restoring of the walls / city / streets if we use the starting ate of 457 BC and the finishing date of 444 BC? Clearly there was work being done before and after Ezra. But it is accepted the first 7  weeks begin at 457 BC to 408 BC., then the 69 weeks begin.

So you're good with the 457 BC date? Maybe 458=456 BC? I think our calendars are off by 2-4 years these days, but that's another discussion. 

Well, are 49 years required? I don't see a required time for the rebuilding. I think you are correct in thinking the city wasn't rebuilt in 13 years, maybe not in 50 years. Why place a time frame on the rebuild?

Isn't the prophecy

"Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah,g the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks..."

and not,

"Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the city is rebuilt...there will be 7 weeks."

The timeline and duration is to the Messiah and when He is cut off. Yes? No?

In my mind the rebuild of the City and the decree setting it motion is for when the Messiah would finish His work. So it's one possible idea, the right one, imo, that the time of the Messiah was set from the beginning and all events flowed to that time. So we should work from the Messiah backwards and not from the decree forwards, nor from pre- or post- exile. 

 

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

There were two things returned and completed after 536 BC - the people and the Temple with the Temple having the date of 515 BC. Why or what happened to the 80 years between 536 BC and 457 BC ? Something is missing here... there seems to be a whole story missing here that could speak to or answer why the 457 BC date was selected to begin the count of the 70 weeks prophecy. God could have easily made the starting date 478 BC and added another 21 years to the 70 weeks and called in a 91 week prophecy...

Yes, He certainly made the numbers fit exactly as He needed to so the 69 weeks ended exactly one day before He was baptized in the Jordan, but He could have used any combination of numbers and events after the exile... so, my question is what was necessary for the start of the 70 weeks prophecy to be 457 BC when there were 80 years available after the exile?

Maybe 80 years was a delay for the return of sufficient numbers of the people, acquiring resources and expertise, kicking out whoever or whatever was in Jerusalem, etc. Israel was always at war throughout history, maybe Israel had to establish boundaries and be secure first. It seems you have a partial answer; from 536-515 they were building the Temple. So you have 58 years 'unaccounted' for.

This time from 515-457 and beyond was the time of the Persian kings. It's plausible the Persian conquests pulled conscripts from Israel and Israel didn't have manpower or resources during Darius and Xerxes reign[when the Jews had many enemies] and only when Artaxerxes had the throne was time, manpower and resources committed to the rebuild. 

Esther was Queen from 479 to when Xerxes was killed, one assumes. Her influence likely lasted much longer. Only during her time were the Jews finally safe in the Persian Kingdom and she no doubt, her being wife of Xerxes and Queen of Persia and all, had a great deal of influence in the Persian Empire at that point and beyond. Artaxerxes reign followed in the footsteps of his father, Xerxes, and without doubt led to the decree and commitment to rebuild. I conclude Esther had everything to do with that lasting dynamic. 

So after throwing all that out there...God needed the right King at the right time as well as the right Queen in Esther, and her father Mordecai. Just read Esther 8-10 to see how it turned out. The rebuild could not begin before this. It was literally a Jewish takeover of the Persian kingdom, imo.

I don't have an answer to why the delay. That's God's purview and He doesn't consult me on timing. I wish He would but alas, He does not.

 

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Hope this makes sense, Charlie

Once again, God does not do random, coincidence or it just worked out that way....He always has a perfect reason and timing for everything... Since I began my study on Daniel I can assure you there are many "corners cut" or misinterpretations accepted because they are simply so, so difficult to unpack or uncover.  Charlie

Over the years I have learned to be satisfied with the great wide gaps, filled with deafening silence, which are littered throughout scripture. Some things we are not meant to know now. Later perhaps, but not now. 

For instance this is a big gap in knowledge; "“Go on your way, Daniel,” he replied, “for the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end"

2500 years of searching and wondering in frustrated astonishment. 

[Dennis1209]

I had the same questions. Below is a copy-paste of notes I took on the subject. 

Daniel 9:25 (KJV) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks [of years: 7+60+2= 69 weeks of years; 69 x 7 = or 483 years. Gabriel said; the four hundred ninety years begins with the commandment to rebuild the holy city. Not the Temple or the walls.

The clock started with Artaxerxes on March 14, 445 b.c. Nehemiah 2:1 (KJV) And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine, and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence (cf. Neh. 2:3,5,6,8). Exactly to the day 483 years later, Messiah the Prince, entered Jerusalem riding a colt no one ever sat upon (Mark 19:28-48). Jesus was rejected as their Messiah and was murdered, the 483 years was literally fulfilled on this day and the clock stopped at 483 years, seven years yet remain on the clock.

Remember; the clock stopped at 483 years because the Messiah was cut off: 483 + 7 = 490 years. There are seven years remaining; those seven years start with the Antichrist confirming a seven year agreement with the many (the seven year Tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble). Jeremiah 30:7 (KJV) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. 

Once again, when and by whom did “the commandment to restore” start these 69 weeks? Nehemiah 2:8 (KJV) And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me. [This was in 445 B.C., and from the moment Artaxerxes signed the letter, the four hundred ninety years began to expire.]

The Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees and Jews were expected to know the exact day the Messiah would present Himself as their Lord [Palm Sunday]. It wasn’t difficult with the exact information given, to precisely determine the exact day, but they did not. When the Jews rejected their Messiah on Palm Sunday; the 490 weeks of years stopped at 483 years. The clock was stopped at 483 years because of Christ’s rejection and He was “cut off” [murdered]; so far it has lasted about two millennia, There is one week [or seven years] to go when the clock starts ticking again, to complete the 70 weeks. The clock starts up again immediately when the Antichrist confirms a covenant with Israel and the many; the precise moment when the seven year tribulation starts.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. 

This interval between the 69th and 70th week is known as the age of Grace, and the church age. Augustine, the RCC and others claim: The church inherited the promises God gave the Jews [replacement theology] because they murdered Jesus. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I had the same questions. Below is a copy-paste of notes I took on the subject. 

Daniel 9:25 (KJV) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks [of years: 7+60+2= 69 weeks of years; 69 x 7 = or 483 years. Gabriel said; the four hundred ninety years begins with the commandment to rebuild the holy city. Not the Temple or the walls.

The clock started with Artaxerxes on March 14, 445 b.c. Nehemiah 2:1 (KJV) And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine, and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence (cf. Neh. 2:3,5,6,8). Exactly to the day 483 years later, Messiah the Prince, entered Jerusalem riding a colt no one ever sat upon (Mark 19:28-48). Jesus was rejected as their Messiah and was murdered, the 483 years was literally fulfilled on this day and the clock stopped at 483 years, seven years yet remain on the clock.

Remember; the clock stopped at 483 years because the Messiah was cut off: 483 + 7 = 490 years. There are seven years remaining; those seven years start with the Antichrist confirming a seven year agreement with the many (the seven year Tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble). Jeremiah 30:7 (KJV) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. 

Once again, when and by whom did “the commandment to restore” start these 69 weeks? Nehemiah 2:8 (KJV) And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me. [This was in 445 B.C., and from the moment Artaxerxes signed the letter, the four hundred ninety years began to expire.]

The Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees and Jews were expected to know the exact day the Messiah would present Himself as their Lord [Palm Sunday]. It wasn’t difficult with the exact information given, to precisely determine the exact day, but they did not. When the Jews rejected their Messiah on Palm Sunday; the 490 weeks of years stopped at 483 years. The clock was stopped at 483 years because of Christ’s rejection and He was “cut off” [murdered]; so far it has lasted about two millennia, There is one week [or seven years] to go when the clock starts ticking again, to complete the 70 weeks. The clock starts up again immediately when the Antichrist confirms a covenant with Israel and the many; the precise moment when the seven year tribulation starts.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. 

This interval between the 69th and 70th week is known as the age of Grace, and the church age. Augustine, the RCC and others claim: The church inherited the promises God gave the Jews [replacement theology] because they murdered Jesus. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To @Dennis1209 and @Diaste... Thank you both for your response... I needed to hear back from someone who might be willing to contribute to my "Daniel madness" at this time. I was getting a little disappointed when I was just hearing "crickets" from my post.

Anyway, this particular issue is a perfect illustration of why I began my study on Daniel.  Let's say there are 50 major issues or prophecies / verses in Daniel. Also, there are 100 brilliant, academic, scholars or theologians that have already contributed to these 50 AND their interpretations represent 90 % of "today's accepted interpretations". It would be foolish for anyone to fight against that kind of a current... However, if I were to tell you that 90% interpretations from this brilliant individuals is NOT in consensus but are almost evenly split in a 50 - 50 %  division, that is a completely different story. And, it means there is a significant problem! No one wants a Supreme Court decision that ends in a 5 to 4 split! If we get a 9 to 0 decision, most likely, everyone is happy in the legal community an the public.

Well, this issue does have a significant split among its scholars, academics, etc. Who is right? And here is what I think I see that has happened .. and this is the only way I know of to try and get to a possible right answer - either side!

If I take a rock and place it at mile market #457 and another at #445, I have to look at their reasons for placing them there. Almost all will do  the same thing - they will go straight back to the time  of the Cross and work backwards because these same scholars that make up this 90% (either 457 or 445) realize that is a good ending point down the road. So, both scholarly camps prepare their mathematical calculations and the result is the placing of their respective rock at one of these two mile markers. Once again, who is right?

The reason this exercise at starting with the Cross and working backwards is because we have the timing of the Cross, we have the number of years to go backwards to, but most importantly, we do not have any study or understanding of what has come BEFORE these two mile markers that tell us where to place these rocks. If we understood BOTH sides  - we might come to a consensus  - the years / reasons that would give us the reason to drop our rock at a certain mile marker would have to  support and not contradict their placement at the mile marker and supports or corroborates the 69 weeks leading up to the Messiah.

Now, I have spent at least 5 years in the last 2 weeks running the numbers - meaning, during these fixed years - 536 BC (the decree to return) to 457 BC (decree to build and restore Jerusalem), one can try and match up the actual / physical construction that was done on the Temple or anything else within those 80 years and there does not seem to be ANY cause and effect or relationship. Further, there is (my opinion) NO relationship with the physical construction or completion of the walls, streets, city, etc., with the 7 weeks or 49 years provision. Yes, all the physical restoration was completed BY THE END OF THE 7 WEEKS OR 49 YEARS, but that is not what the prophecy calls for... nothing says the walls, city, streets WILL BE COMPLETED IN THOSE 49 YEARS.

Once again, all of this tells me the prophecy of the 7 -62-1 is NOT SEPARATED for a physical restoration of Jerusalem - since none of the construction work fits this separation. And, since we can not use the physical completion to lock down its prophetic meaning going forward, we need to understand the events or activities BEFORE we placed the rock on a certain mile marker.

The reason I have selected the 457 BC mile market is because I find the decree from Artaxerxes stronger. Further, even without any understanding of what happened before 457 BC, the result of exactly 80 years between 457 and 536 is too easy to ignore. God does not do anything without a perfect reason or timing. 

Finally, since there does not seem to be ANY physical reason for this "80 year" time span. then it must be one that is "spiritual" and meant for us to see in a spiritual context. Since there is also no information given for the 62 week time period, the 7 week time period should also follow along...(non-physical). 

The number 80 is not uncommon in the scriptures nor is 40 (two 4o's for the 80). Since this entire prophecy is about restoration,  then the 7 and 62 must be something restorative that only can be accomplished by the coming Messiah. What is God restoring in

His people, His city, walls and streets, in a spiritual manner before His coming? If we can answer this, we will know if our mile marker is 457 or 445.

PS. Here is my latest thoughts on this - the Jews were physically set free from Egypt but due to their lack of faith and disobedience they were punished for 40 years. The Jews were released physically from Babylon but may have also angered God and were punished for 40 years. The other 40 years (pure conjecture) is the same punishment period but they relate to the Jews over in Babylon in the book of Esther. - same time frame, same King, Persia, etc.,).

Now you see the confusion and the reason I reached out to the good folks in this forum. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I really do not want to leave 9:25 commentary uncompleted because of this very important  7-62-1 prophecy.

Charlie