Antiochus Epiphanes, the premier archetype of the antichrist, any others qualify ?

[Tom Maccabeus]

Hi all,

I think there is a good consensus that Emperor Antiochus Epiphanes IV (167 B.C.) is seen as the premier archetype of the antichrist. He fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel 11 and Daniel 8. In blasphemous pride Antiochus assumed the title "Theos Epiphanes" (god manifest) Daniel 11:36 states… he will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods" (also in 2 Thess. 2).

What do you think, any others qualify? BTW there is a reason I ask.

Tom

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tom Maccabeus

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Hi all,

I think there is a good consensus that Emperor Antiochus Epiphanes IV (167 B.C.) is seen as the premier archetype of the antichrist. He fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel 11 and Daniel 8. In blasphemous pride Antiochus assumed the title "Theos Epiphanes" (god manifest) Daniel 11:36 states… he will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods" (also in 2 Thess. 2).

What do you think, any others qualify? BTW there is a reason I ask.

Tom

Well, there may be others, but no one else is in  Dan. 11:21-34 just before we see the Anti-Christ in Dan. 11:36-45. 

I did an Exegesis on Daniel 11, found out I had to include Daniel 12, then realized the dream in Daniel 1o also covers  chapters 11 and 12 and is all one visitation. So, in essence I should have included chapter 10 also. I placed that on this site about 4-6 years ago. Whilst doing this exegesis (because I got tired of not being able to explain Dan. 11 in full) I was rewarded by God with two key eschatological end time understandings I probably never would have been given otherwise. One is the 1290 and 1335 understanding which mostly no one understands tbh. Secondly, in this exegesis I came across a man named Jason (real name Yeshua) who bribed Antiochus in order to become the High Priest, having his Pious High Priest brother Onias III killed. Jason then welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God where he sacrificed a pig on the altar of God unto Zeus. Jason then mandated that all Jews become Hellenized, leading unto the infamous Maccabean Revolt! So, not only is Antiochus Epiphanes IV the Archetype Anti-Christ, and he also (of course, think about it, it makes perfect sense BOTH TYPES would rule together) had the Archetype False Prophet under his command, which lets us know the end time False Prophet will also be a Jewish High Priest gone rogue !!

{{{ Jason covers about 7 chapters in the book of Maccabees (2 Maccabees 4:7-10:9). He can also be found in history books, in Wikipedia and elsewhere.}}} 

 

I can explain the 1290 and 1335, suffice it to say I think you can figure it out when given a key verse. In verse 8 in Dan. 12, Daniel asks the exact same question that the Angel asks in verse 6, so why would the equations or answers be any different? In verse 7 the Man in Linen (Jesus pre incarnate) basically says this, from the time the Jews (holy peoples) are conquered until all of these wonders (Dan. 11:36-45) end, there will by 1260 days, OR...via what we now know, he is saying this, from the time Israel is conquered by this end time Beast there will be 1260 days until the Second Coming, which will END ALL OF THESE WONDERS you were just shown in Dan. 11:36-45. So Jesus shows up and places the Anti-Christ/Beast and False Prophet Beast into hellfire (Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20)

So, why would the symmetry change? The other two numbers also end when Jesus' Second Coming ends them, thus the first event (number) happens 1335 days before the Second Coming and the second number, the 1290 happens 1290 days before the Second Coming ends all of these wonders. Now all you have top do is figure out what the numbered events mean. Remember the 1335 is a Blessing, and the 1290 stops the Sacrifice (which is not a meat sacrifice, that would be an abomination in and of itself) and places the AoD (HINT it can not be the Beast he only goes forth conquering at the 1260 event 30 days later). In Rev. 13 who places THE IMAGE ? 

So, not only is your assumption correct, but it also means this man must be born in Greece, Dan. 8:9 mandates this anyway. He also fulfills Dan. 7:7-8 by becoming a ruler from the Fourth Beasts 10 (10 means completion) horns or from a COMPLETE reunified Europe. He also must have Assyrian (Turkish/Iraqi) blood. 

So, he's a Turk, whose parents/grand parents migrated to Greece, where he was born, which makes him eligible to become the E.U. President. ALL THREE have to be fulfilled, and thus are indeed true factoids. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Hi all,

I think there is a good consensus that Emperor Antiochus Epiphanes IV (167 B.C.) is seen as the premier archetype of the antichrist. He fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel 11 and Daniel 8. In blasphemous pride Antiochus assumed the title "Theos Epiphanes" (god manifest) Daniel 11:36 states… he will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods" (also in 2 Thess. 2).

What do you think, any others qualify? BTW there is a reason I ask.

Tom

I don't believe he qualifies as an antichrist. I would say Caiaphas is a good example of an antichrist. 

An antichrist is someone who denies Jesus is the Christ. 

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

PS, daniel 11:36 sounds like a narcissist. It doesn't really say if he denies Christ or not. It's possible the man could claim to be a Christian for all we know. 

Does appear to think highly of himself though. 

[Diaste]

Jesus said, "When you see...the abomination of desolation..."

as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

By extension someone must place it. But I don't think Dan 8 addresses AE IV. From what I can find AE IV does appear in prophecy, in Dan 11. I would say Dan 11:30-32 are about AE IV. That did happen as AE came to fight against Egypt and was turned back by the Romans, then in a rage went back to Syria, stopping along the way to take out his anger on the Jewish people. 

But it also seems that Dan 11:36 introduces the end time beast, and doesn't refer to Antiochus. Dan 11:40 refers to what the 11:36 willful king does and endures 'at the time of the end', so that could not be AE. 

Nothing I have read suggests AE ever exalted himself over his own Syrian gods, nor the Roman gods, Greek gods, etc. Part of the requirement isn't just to blaspheme the Most High God, but every god; "and magnify himself above every god", Dan 11:36, and "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;" from 2 Thess 2:4.

Does AE fit as the exact archetype? I think the willful king of Dan 11:36 and the self-exalting king of 2 Thess 2:4 is the same king, the archetype, and all others are copies. That being said AE is the closest copy to the real one that's yet come. 

I also think we are looking for the A of D. Jesus did say to look to Daniel for the understanding of the A of D, not the beast. Why?

Maybe because we need to know the times.

Maybe because we'll understand the beast if we understand the A of D. 

Maybe, and this is where I think it's important, the beast and the A of D must happen just before Jesus comes back.

But if your looking for a person alive today, or one from the past, I don't know one. The Pope is perhaps the most blasphemous person alive today assuming the title of Christ and the power and authority of Christ, in place of Christ. 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Jesus said, "When you see...the abomination of desolation..."

as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

By extension someone must place it. But I don't think Dan 8 addresses AE IV. From what I can find AE IV does appear in prophecy, in Dan 11. I would say Dan 11:30-32 are about AE IV. That did happen as AE came to fight against Egypt and was turned back by the Romans, then in a rage went back to Syria, stopping along the way to take out his anger on the Jewish people. 

But it also seems that Dan 11:36 introduces the end time beast, and doesn't refer to Antiochus. Dan 11:40 refers to what the 11:36 willful king does and endures 'at the time of the end', so that could not be AE. 

Nothing I have read suggests AE ever exalted himself over his own Syrian gods, nor the Roman gods, Greek gods, etc. Part of the requirement isn't just to blaspheme the Most High God, but every god; "and magnify himself above every god", Dan 11:36, and "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;" from 2 Thess 2:4.

Does AE fit as the exact archetype? I think the willful king of Dan 11:36 and the self-exalting king of 2 Thess 2:4 is the same king, the archetype, and all others are copies. That being said AE is the closest copy to the real one that's yet come. 

I also think we are looking for the A of D. Jesus did say to look to Daniel for the understanding of the A of D, not the beast. Why?

Maybe because we need to know the times.

Maybe because we'll understand the beast if we understand the A of D. 

Maybe, and this is where I think it's important, the beast and the A of D must happen just before Jesus comes back.

But if your looking for a person alive today, or one from the past, I don't know one. The Pope is perhaps the most blasphemous person alive today assuming the title of Christ and the power and authority of Christ, in place of Christ. 

 

Many people do not pay any attention to the prophecies in Daniel 11 because the Pharisees interpreted Daniel 11 as being fulfilled. The sect of the Pharisees was founded in 167 bc at the time they claimed the abomination of desolation was placed in Jerusalem. Jesus obviously didn't agree with the Pharisees that Daniels prophey had been fulfilled at that time putting thier interpretation in question. Not just that one part but all of it. Their interpretation of the entire chapter should be questioned. 

It all comes down to who you believe. 

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

 

Hi all ,

Thanks for your comments. I would like to move this discussion to a new level and move to another point, new thread 

 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

Many people do not pay any attention to the prophecies in Daniel 11 because the Pharisees interpreted Daniel 11 as being fulfilled. The sect of the Pharisees was founded in 167 bc at the time they claimed the abomination of desolation was placed in Jerusalem. Jesus obviously didn't agree with the Pharisees that Daniels prophey had been fulfilled at that time putting thier interpretation in question. Not just that one part but all of it. Their interpretation of the entire chapter should be questioned. 

It all comes down to who you believe. 

 

I'm convinced much of Dan 11 is fulfilled in the Diadochi and their kingdoms and wars, right up to when the context changes to the time of the end. 

Dan 11:2-4 is the rise and fall of Alexander and the eventual rule of the Diadochi. These wars amongst the Diadochi and their descendants are portrayed by Dan 11. Dan 11:29-31 literally happened to AE. The Syrian king, a direct descendent of Seleucus I Nicator, tried to invade Egypt but was met by a Roman General who arrived in Egypt by ship [Rome being west of Syria], and was turned back. That was in 169 BC. AE then marched back home stopping in Israel and fulfilling this:

"Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation."

I do not know of another set of events and circumstances that could fulfill Dan 11:29-31 as well as AE did in 169-167 BC. 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

I'm convinced much of Dan 11 is fulfilled in the Diadochi and their kingdoms and wars, right up to when the context changes to the time of the end. 

Dan 11:2-4 is the rise and fall of Alexander and the eventual rule of the Diadochi. These wars amongst the Diadochi and their descendants are portrayed by Dan 11. Dan 11:29-31 literally happened to AE. The Syrian king, a direct descendent of Seleucus I Nicator, tried to invade Egypt but was met by a Roman General who arrived in Egypt by ship [Rome being west of Syria], and was turned back. That was in 169 BC. AE then marched back home stopping in Israel and fulfilling this:

"Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation."

I do not know of another set of events and circumstances that could fulfill Dan 11:29-31 as well as AE did in 169-167 BC. 

 

I think you should believe Jesus Insted of whoever it was who taught you the abomination of desolation was already placed in Jerusalem. 

Christ said what would happen when the abomimation of desolation is placed in Jerusalem. 

If you pay close attention to what christ taught, you will find that the abomination of desolation is not placed in Jerusalem at verse 31.

It's placed in Jerusalem in verse 44.

Daniel 11:44

But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

 

Do you want me to show you how I know this? 

[Shilohsfoal]

Daniel 12:10

Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

 

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I believe the biggest reason that so many people who deny christ can't understand Daniels prophecy is because of the book of Maccabees and its interpretation of the events in daniel. The Pharisees thought they were wise and had great understanding of the events in Daniel 11 but their understanding was all wrong. 

At least we as believers in Christ's words know the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel has not been placed in Jerusalem yet which is testimony the interpretation of the Pharisees was all wrong. 

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Mathew 24:15

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

Edited November 2, 2022 by Shilohsfoal