Antiochus Epiphanes, archetype of persecution/oppression of God's people, End Times

[Tom Maccabeus]

Point number one: There is good consensus that Antiochus Epiphanes ( A.E.IV ) is the archetype of what we call commonly call the antichrist (the beast, the man of sin ) using the broad term.

Second point: There seems to be a good consensus that his actions will foreshadow events in the Last Days related to the Abomination of desolation, Rev 13 , 2 Thess. 2 , etc.  We can go back to records that describe him, like the  books of the  Maccabees.  Although not scripture, they do contain a good record of history.

Many Christians are probably aware of his installing the idol of Zeus (made in his image) in the temple. Christians may not be aware that he also forced everyone to worship, on many altars set out throughout the land of Judea.  He was out to defile and cause Gods people to compromise into idolatry and fall away.          1 Maccabees 1:54

“Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;”

Edited November 2, 2022 by Tom Maccabeus
typo

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Point number one: There is good consensus that Antiochus Epiphanes ( A.E.IV ) is the archetype of what we call commonly call the antichrist (the beast, the man of sin ) using the broad term.

Second point: There seems to be a good consensus that his actions will foreshadow events in the Last Days related to the Abomination of desolation, Rev 13 , 2 Thess. 2 , etc.  We can go back to records that describe him, like the  Books of the  Maccabees .  Although not scripture, they do contains a good record of history.

Many Christians are probably aware of his installing the idol of Zeus (made in his image) in the temple. Christians may not be aware that he also forced everyone to worship, on many altars set out throughout the land of Judea.  He was out to defile and cause Gods people to compromise into idolatry and fall away.          1 Maccabees 1:54

“Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;”

The king of the north actually doesn't place the abomination of desolation himself in Daniel 11:31.

Its his armed forces who actually place it. I have no doubt the commander in chief orders it to be placed there but it's the armed forces who actually handle weapons of mass destruction. 

My guess when the Pharisees first attempted to interpret Daniel 11:31,they could never have foreseen the weapons that would be used to cause Jerusalems desolation at the time of he end. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Tom Maccabeus]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The king of the north actually doesn't place the abomination of desolation himself in Daniel 11:31.

Its his armed forces who actually place it. I have no doubt the commander in chief orders it to be placed there but it's the armed forces who actually handle weapons of mass destruction. 

Hi , Yes I agree that not every minutte detail was fulfilled by him. But considering he fulfilled or partially fulfilled many (some call the most detailed prophecy of the whole bible ) is the reason I think he is veiwed as the archetype of the antichrist.

Thanks

[Tom Maccabeus]

BTW,  you make a good point in that the people "they" installed the AOD, in one pasage of Daniel.  I take that to infer the kingdom of antichrist (not just the person) is something we have to take seroiusly in the last days

Edited November 2, 2022 by Tom Maccabeus
typo

[Tom Maccabeus]

Anyway,  i'm trying to get to a macro view related to the archetype/ foreshadowing  of antichrist

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Hi , Yes I agree that not every minutte detail was fulfilled by him. But considering he fulfilled or partially fulfilled many (some call the most detailed prophecy of the whole bible ) is the reason I think he is veiwed as the archetype of the antichrist.

Thanks

To be honest, I don't believe he fulfilled any of Daniel 11.I believe the people who interpreted his actions as having fulfilled prophecy about the end times didn't understand it wasn't the end times in their day. The end never came in 167 bc. 

 

[David1701]

3 minutes ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Anyway,  i'm trying to get to a macro view related to the archetype/ foreshadowing  of antichrist

Yes, Antiochus Epiphanes was a type of the anti-Christ.  The anti-Christ was revealed, much later, to be the office of "Pope", who sits in the temple of God (professing Church) as if he were God (he claims to the Vicar of Christ, which means "Instead of Christ", that is, anti-Christ).

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

BTW,  you make a good point in that the people "they" installed the AOD, in one pasage of Daniel.  I take that to infer the kingdom of antichrist (not just the person) is something we have to take seroiusly in the last days

The, "they" in the verse is said to be his armed forces who both abolish the daily sacrifice and place the abomination that causes desolation. 

If you weren't sold on half this chapter being about the BCs, you may have paid closer attention to it in the last few decades. Not many people pay much attention to this chapter because of Maccabees. 

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, Tom Maccabeus said:

Anyway,  i'm trying to get to a macro view related to the archetype/ foreshadowing  of antichrist

I suggest that you have forgotten a most important one: Judas, the original Son of Perdition. The forerunner of the Son of Perdition of 2 Thes. 2.

Which gives me an excuse to quote one of my (shameless plug here) most favorite blogs:

The Son of Perdition Is a Patsy

When Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested on November 22, 1963, he asked the police what he was being charged with. They told him the murder of President Kennedy. He then said, “So Iʼm the patsy.” A few days later, he was dead and despised.

Whether or not one believes Oswald shot Kennedy, what he said was true: Kennedy was dead, and Kennedyʼs enemies had a patsy to take the blame.

Judas was also patsy. When he threw the blood-money for Jesusʼ betrayal into the holy naos/sanctuary of the Temple (Matt. 27:5) – coins with pagan gods idolized upon them – he committed the Abomination of Desolation for that age. Jesus called him “the Son of Perdition.” John 17:12; 6:70-71 After Judas had been so used by Satan and apostate Jews to effect the death of Jesus, he was then disdained by his masters like the dumb fool he was. And, like Oswald, he became dead and despised soon afterward

The Son of Perdition for our age, a.k.a. the King of the North, will similarly be used as a patsy. He will invade the Middle East, seemingly from the north through Syria, then occupy Israel and subdue Islamic North Africa. Dan. 11:40-43 This Satan-deluded god-man will bring his forces from Europe by means of “ships of Chittim.” Num. 24:23-24 His invasion will inflame the rest of the world, particularly the peoples of Islamic and Jewish Middle East, but also peoples “from the east” – probably Iran and/or China, “and from the north” – Syriaʼs ally Russia. Dan. 11:44 “He shall [then] plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain [that is, the Temple Mount: this will be the Abomination of Desolation for our age], but shall come to his end, and no one will help him.” Dan. 11:45

Like Judas, this patsy will quickly end up dead and despised, because his usefulness to Satan will be over. Satanʼs sole plan for him is to cause world-ending chaos, that is, the Great Tribulation. Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:15, 21 This will cause the collapse of the current worldʼs political system, and set the stage for “a New World Order,” that is, the Beast Kingdom – in which kingdom the Son of Perdition will have no part at all.

Jesus, in his appearance in the clouds to be “seen by every eye” (Rev. 1:17; 6:16 = Sixth Seal), will gather his Elect to himself, even while shepherding the earthly Remnant of Jacob into the “place prepared of [Greek apo: lit. away from] God, that they should feed her there 1260 days.” Matt. 24:31; Rev. 12:6 This Remnant will “have the testimony of Jesus.” Rev. 12:17 But not having prepared themselves for his Coming, they wonʼt be able to ascend to him. Among the Remnant will be the sealed and sanctified 144,000, who will shepherd them during the 1260 days.

As for the Son of Perdition, “…the Lord shall consume [him] with the spirit of his mouth, and shall bring [him] to naught with the brightness of his coming.” 2 Thes. 2:8

The “door” into the heavens will then be quickly “shut” (Matt. 25:10), along with every Spirit-opened eye, leaving forlorn virgins pleading to be allowed in. (“I do not see/perceive [Greek: oida] you,” Jesus will tell them. Matt. 25:11-12) Sometime thereafter, “the Beast that ascends out of the Abyss” (Rev. 11:7), having been released at the Fifth angelic Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2, 11-12), will proceed to fulfill the “strong delusion” ordained by God. 2 Thes. 2:11 The little horn/Mouth of the Beast will utter his blasphemies against God, deceive the world, and persecute the earthly saints for 1260 days. Dan. 7:8, 25; Rev. 13:5-7

By this time the Son of Perdition, the patsy used by Western apostate Christianity to fully betray its once great heritage –

this deluded god-man, who commits the Abomination of Desolation, which brings to pass the chaos of the Great Tribulation –

he will have become no more than a hiss and a byword of history. Just like Judas, the only other son of perdition, who was used by apostate Judaism to fully betray their own once great heritage. John 17:12

Instead of being the great operator and insider heʼd been duped into believing himself to be, the Son of Perdition will turn out to be just another dumb-fool patsy. Like Judas. Like Oswald.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1097-the-son-of-perdition-is-a-patsy/

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

I suggest that you have forgotten a most important one: Judas, the original Son of Perdition. The forerunner of the Son of Perdition of 2 Thes. 2.

Which gives me an excuse to quote one of my (shameless plug here) most favorite blogs:

The Son of Perdition Is a Patsy

When Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested on November 22, 1963, he asked the police what he was being charged with. They told him the murder of President Kennedy. He then said, “So Iʼm the patsy.” A few days later, he was dead and despised.

Whether or not one believes Oswald shot Kennedy, what he said was true: Kennedy was dead, and Kennedyʼs enemies had a patsy to take the blame.

Judas was also patsy. When he threw the blood-money for Jesusʼ betrayal into the holy naos/sanctuary of the Temple (Matt. 27:5) – coins with pagan gods idolized upon them – he committed the Abomination of Desolation for that age. Jesus called him “the Son of Perdition.” John 17:12; 6:70-71 After Judas had been so used by Satan and apostate Jews to effect the death of Jesus, he was then disdained by his masters like the dumb fool he was. And, like Oswald, he became dead and despised soon afterward

The Son of Perdition for our age, a.k.a. the King of the North, will similarly be used as a patsy. He will invade the Middle East, seemingly from the north through Syria, then occupy Israel and subdue Islamic North Africa. Dan. 11:40-43 This Satan-deluded god-man will bring his forces from Europe by means of “ships of Chittim.” Num. 24:23-24 His invasion will inflame the rest of the world, particularly the peoples of Islamic and Jewish Middle East, but also peoples “from the east” – probably Iran and/or China, “and from the north” – Syriaʼs ally Russia. Dan. 11:44 “He shall [then] plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain [that is, the Temple Mount: this will be the Abomination of Desolation for our age], but shall come to his end, and no one will help him.” Dan. 11:45

Like Judas, this patsy will quickly end up dead and despised, because his usefulness to Satan will be over. Satanʼs sole plan for him is to cause world-ending chaos, that is, the Great Tribulation. Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:15, 21 This will cause the collapse of the current worldʼs political system, and set the stage for “a New World Order,” that is, the Beast Kingdom – in which kingdom the Son of Perdition will have no part at all.

Jesus, in his appearance in the clouds to be “seen by every eye” (Rev. 1:17; 6:16 = Sixth Seal), will gather his Elect to himself, even while shepherding the earthly Remnant of Jacob into the “place prepared of [Greek apo: lit. away from] God, that they should feed her there 1260 days.” Matt. 24:31; Rev. 12:6 This Remnant will “have the testimony of Jesus.” Rev. 12:17 But not having prepared themselves for his Coming, they wonʼt be able to ascend to him. Among the Remnant will be the sealed and sanctified 144,000, who will shepherd them during the 1260 days.

As for the Son of Perdition, “…the Lord shall consume [him] with the spirit of his mouth, and shall bring [him] to naught with the brightness of his coming.” 2 Thes. 2:8

The “door” into the heavens will then be quickly “shut” (Matt. 25:10), along with every Spirit-opened eye, leaving forlorn virgins pleading to be allowed in. (“I do not see/perceive [Greek: oida] you,” Jesus will tell them. Matt. 25:11-12) Sometime thereafter, “the Beast that ascends out of the Abyss” (Rev. 11:7), having been released at the Fifth angelic Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2, 11-12), will proceed to fulfill the “strong delusion” ordained by God. 2 Thes. 2:11 The little horn/Mouth of the Beast will utter his blasphemies against God, deceive the world, and persecute the earthly saints for 1260 days. Dan. 7:8, 25; Rev. 13:5-7

By this time the Son of Perdition, the patsy used by Western apostate Christianity to fully betray its once great heritage –

this deluded god-man, who commits the Abomination of Desolation, which brings to pass the chaos of the Great Tribulation –

he will have become no more than a hiss and a byword of history. Just like Judas, the only other son of perdition, who was used by apostate Judaism to fully betray their own once great heritage. John 17:12

Instead of being the great operator and insider heʼd been duped into believing himself to be, the Son of Perdition will turn out to be just another dumb-fool patsy. Like Judas. Like Oswald.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1097-the-son-of-perdition-is-a-patsy/

Your abomination of desolation is not biblical. 

You believe someone setting up a tent on the temple Mt will cause people to flee for their lives is laughable. I mean come on, Jesus said it would be a time of great tribulation, the likes of which have never been seen. 

Can't you come up with something alittle more frightening? 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Shilohsfoal