Can Christians of 2022 Better Relate To Lot Than Christians of 2019

[Space_Karen]

In the bible a mob appears on Lot's doorstep. Rather than protect his family, Lot offers his daughters to the mob in a gesture of appeasement.

This behavior is extremely distasteful to most. I think most would agree Lot fighting to the death to defend his daughters would have been a better legacy and story. A man protecting his family is the type of act most of us would expect from our peers. Rather than the behavior of Lot which most would consider cowardly and shameful.

But then 2022 rolled around and my perspective on this story completely changed.

Today we have fentanyl dealers in our communities. We have many real problems which have arrived on our own doorsteps. Are we handling our issues with more courage or success than Lot did his?

It seems that while Lot's story in the bible was completely incomprehensible to many christians prior to 2020. 

Within the last 2 years, Lot's story has become a million times easier to relate to, as it has perhaps become identical to our own. 

Trouble arrived and our only response was to follow in Lot's footsteps of appeasement. Being too afraid or apathetic to speak out against fentanyl killing our family and friends. As well as other issues faced by society. Not knowing how to organize, communicate or cooperate to address issues.

Many feel a deep sense of guilt over this. We had always thought that we would be freeing slaves and punching nazis if things got hot. But somehow it was not to be.

If we wake up one day to discover we're only human. We're not as brave or great as we thought we were. Where do we go from here.

Do we need to make changes? Do we continue along the same path?

How do we become greater than Lot. What can we learn from his example.

And how should we think of Lot and his story now that we have a greater personal appreciation for the troubles he faced.

 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

.An interesting take and question! However, I don't see Lot in any better light, just because of the evil of out own day. I am also not a fan of Abraham seemingly not fighting for the honor of his wife and so Sarah was taken to king Abimelech's harem, or some such. The one thing about the Bible, is even it's "heroes" can be creepy! David was nothing to write home about, and there are a few others who did not exactly shine.

In a way, that is a good thing, as it shines light on flaws, instead of hiding them as if they did not exist.

I don't know how to answer your questions about what we should do, what can we learn, I think we know what to do in terms of how to be ideal Christians, I just don't think we are sold out the Jesus enough to do it. If we were, we might find our lives more like the apostle Paul, or a Mother Teresa!

[missmuffet]

42 minutes ago, Space_Karen said:

In the bible a mob appears on Lot's doorstep. Rather than protect his family, Lot offers his daughters to the mob in a gesture of appeasement.

This behavior is extremely distasteful to most. I think most would agree Lot fighting to the death to defend his daughters would have been a better legacy and story. A man protecting his family is the type of act most of us would expect from our peers. Rather than the behavior of Lot which most would consider cowardly and shameful.

But then 2022 rolled around and my perspective on this story completely changed.

Today we have fentanyl dealers in our communities. We have many real problems which have arrived on our own doorsteps. Are we handling our issues with more courage or success than Lot did his?

It seems that while Lot's story in the bible was completely incomprehensible to many christians prior to 2020. 

Within the last 2 years, Lot's story has become a million times easier to relate to, as it has perhaps become identical to our own. 

Trouble arrived and our only response was to follow in Lot's footsteps of appeasement. Being too afraid or apathetic to speak out against fentanyl killing our family and friends. As well as other issues faced by society. Not knowing how to organize, communicate or cooperate to address issues.

Many feel a deep sense of guilt over this. We had always thought that we would be freeing slaves and punching nazis if things got hot. But somehow it was not to be.

If we wake up one day to discover we're only human. We're not as brave or great as we thought we were. Where do we go from here.

Do we need to make changes? Do we continue along the same path?

How do we become greater than Lot. What can we learn from his example.

And how should we think of Lot and his story now that we have a greater personal appreciation for the troubles he faced.

 

 

Why did God allow Lot to offer his daughters,and why did He allow them to commit incest? Lot chose to live in his old sin nature and do what was easiest. Sometimes God gives us His reason but not always. We need to make choices that don't conform to this world. 

[Omegaman 3.0]

45 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

why did He allow them to commit incest?

Was it even "incest" before it was forbidden? Lot was in Genesis, if relations with close relatives were to be forbidden, as far as I know that was not stated in the Bible until  Leviticus, if not Deuteronomy. It was part of God's plan in the beginning, how else would the world ever be populated from just one pair of humans. I imagine the third generation was the result of some brother/sister activities.

[walla299]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

.An interesting take and question! However, I don't see Lot in any better light, just because of the evil of out own day. I am also not a fan of Abraham seemingly not fighting for the honor of his wife and so Sarah was taken to king Abimelech's harem, or some such. The one thing about the Bible, is even it's "heroes" can be creepy! David was nothing to write home about, and there are a few others who did not exactly shine.

In a way, that is a good thing, as it shines light on flaws, instead of hiding them as if they did not exist.

I don't know how to answer your questions about what we should do, what can we learn, I think we know what to do in terms of how to be ideal Christians, I just don't think we are sold out the Jesus enough to do it. If we were, we might find our lives more like the apostle Paul, or a Mother Teresa!

I heard it said years ago that the Bible is nothing if not honest in the stories of faith: the heroes are shown as what they were - fallen human beings who were not "perfect" but still followed the Lord. They are show as it were "warts and all" and it should be an encouragement to us because they stumbled from time to time just like us - but God always gave them another chance when they repented.

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, walla299 said:

I heard it said years ago that the Bible is nothing if not honest in the stories of faith: the heroes are shown as what they were - fallen human beings who were not "perfect" but still followed the Lord. They are show as it were "warts and all" and it should be an encouragement to us because they stumbled from time to time just like us - but God always gave them another chance when they repented.

Coincidentally, Jen and I were talking about that in chat, that people like Job, David, Abraham had flaws, yet God still uses people for His purposes and glory. Supposedly, diamond were once lumps of coal under heat and pressure, I have hope that this life is our heat and pressure, and God will make diamonds out of us yet!

[BibleStudent100]

9 hours ago, Space_Karen said:

This behavior is extremely distasteful to most. I think most would agree Lot fighting to the death to defend his daughters would have been a better legacy and story. A man protecting his family is the type of act most of us would expect from our peers. Rather than the behavior of Lot which most would consider cowardly and shameful.

 

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Why did God allow Lot to offer his daughters,and why did He allow them to commit incest? Lot chose to live in his old sin nature and do what was easiest. Sometimes God gives us His reason but not always. We need to make choices that don't conform to this world. 

This account has puzzled and even disturbed some, but in no way did Lot act in a cowardly way.  A careful read of the account reveals that Lot bravely stepped outside to attempt to reason with the sex crazed men of Sodom who were crying out to have sex with the two strangers, but that act of courage did not assuage their lustful conduct. So why would Lot have offered his daughters to the mob?  Here are some possibilities:

A)    If Lot had realized that these men were materialized angels, then Lot was sure that they, with their angelic powers would have intervened so as to prevent the two daughters from being gang raped.

B)    Lot remembered how God had protected Sarah, his uncle’s wife, when she was in danger of being violated by Pharoah, so Lot could have reasoned that his daughters could be similarly protected.

C)    Lot may have also have been trying to shock or confuse the men.  He may have believed that his daughters would not be desired by the crowd because of the homosexual lust of the Sodomites.

D)    Since the young women were engaged to men of the city, so relatives, friends or business associates of his prospective sons-in-law might well have been in the crowd and Lot may have hope that by reason of such ties, some men in that mob would speak up in defense of his daughters; a mob thus divided would not be nearly so dangerous.

Whatever Lot’s reasoning and motives were, we can be sure of this:  Since the Lord always does what is just, He must have had good to reason to view Lot as a “righteous man” (2 Peter 2: 8,9) and so we assume that Lot’s actions were the correct actions to take under the circumstances.

[Jayne]

4 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

We can be sure of this:  Since the Lord always does what is just, He must have had good to reason to view Lot as a “righteous man” (2 Peter 2: 8,9) and so we assume that Lot’s actions were the correct actions to take under the circumstances.

You've said here that because Lot is called righteous in 2 Peter that his actions of wanting to throw his daughters to sexual predators was "correct under the circumstances".

I have to disagree with you here.  There are plenty of Godly people in the Bible and today that did and do TERRIBLE things that are unjustifiable.

Just because someone is Godly and righteous does not mean their actions are always "correct under the circumstances."  For example, David's taking Bathsheba and murdering of Uriah was not and will never be correct under the circumstances.

You've connected two dots that have nothing to do with one another.

Go back to 2 Peter and see why Lot was called righteous.  It says Lot was, "oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)".

The sins of Sodom made him sick to the point that his righteous soul was "tormented".

I don't know about you, but if something is "tormenting" my righteous soul and I can escape from it, I would GET away from it.

The first time that I read Peter's account of calling Lot righteous and why, I had to rack my brain trying to figure out why he didn't leave Sodom.  Why did he cling to it?

• He chose that part of land when offered by Abraham.
• He pitched his tent towards Sodom.
• When Sodom was captured and Lot and his family was kidnapped and then rescued, he moved BACK TO SODOM.  That was his prime opportunity to get away from the place that was tormenting him!  
• He becomes a leader of sorts, living in the wall of Sodom. 
• He tries, in vain, to make a difference in the moral conduct of Sodom, but fails epically.  See Genesis 19:9

Only Jesus Christ was and is perfect.

The rest of us - even the best of us - there is NO justifying of sin.

No matter what the circumstances are.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jayne

[Dennis1209]

I see plenty of correlation between the days of Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah. But, not so much as using illegal pharmakeia compared to today. Customs, beliefs, hospitality, observances, and traditions were much different back then than today.

Our democratic form of government represents the people’s immediate will today, a mob. We have drifted away from the Constitutional Republic by law, and I need not cite dozens of examples of government abuse of power and labeling.

I need not mention the unrestricted flood of illegals and drugs flowing across our open borders over the last two years under O’Biden.

I notice a historical biblical pattern for nations; most judgments from God are not brought on until abominations and sin become the law of the land. Have we noticed how bad things are getting in America and the globe almost daily, and where it is going?

I can safely say we are now the Divided States of America.

[Not of the World]

18 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

An interesting take and question! However, I don't see Lot in any better light, just because of the evil of out own day. I am also not a fan of Abraham seemingly not fighting for the honor of his wife and so Sarah was taken to king Abimelech's harem, or some such. The one thing about the Bible, is even it's "heroes" can be creepy! David was nothing to write home about, and there are a few others who did not exactly shine.

On the surface I share your feelings but I also recognize that we cannot necessarily relate or understand the culture of that place in time.