Who decided that Jesus was born on Christmas Day?

[JohnD]

(from Quora Digest)

 

 

Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Roman Catholic invention under the heading of benevolently changing a traditionally pagan holiday (Saturnalia) into a Christian observation of the birth of Jesus.

There is no way to determine exactly the day of the year he was born.

Other than the account of this event actually happening, no religious observation of it is required or even suggested. Jesus did say to remember his DEATH until he returns (by observing the Passover Seder portion of the broken matzoh and 3rd the cup of redemption which defines what Passover is truly about).

The Roman Catholics also screwed that up with their tradition of the Eucharist (and the Protestants do the Last Supper which more or less stems from the Roman Catholic Eucharist).

“As often as you do this” do in remembrance of me… meant to the Jews in company who understood what he was referring to as often as you do this as Passover Seder.

John 1:14 gives us a hint as to when Jesus was actually born (during the feast of tabernacles) in that John 1:14 states in the Greek that he tabernacled among us. Sometime in September / October depending on the lunar Jewish calendar that year (most agree it was 3–7 BCE). The Roman Catholics also got the year wrong.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, JohnD said:

(from Quora Digest)

 

 

Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Roman Catholic invention under the heading of benevolently changing a traditionally pagan holiday (Saturnalia) into a Christian observation of the birth of Jesus.

There is no way to determine exactly the day of the year he was born.

Other than the account of this event actually happening, no religious observation of it is required or even suggested. Jesus did say to remember his DEATH until he returns (by observing the Passover Seder portion of the broken matzoh and 3rd the cup of redemption which defines what Passover is truly about).

The Roman Catholics also screwed that up with their tradition of the Eucharist (and the Protestants do the Last Supper which more or less stems from the Roman Catholic Eucharist).

“As often as you do this” do in remembrance of me… meant to the Jews in company who understood what he was referring to as often as you do this as Passover Seder.

John 1:14 gives us a hint as to when Jesus was actually born (during the feast of tabernacles) in that John 1:14 states in the Greek that he tabernacled among us. Sometime in September / October depending on the lunar Jewish calendar that year (most agree it was 3–7 BCE). The Roman Catholics also got the year wrong.

Nice posting. I would like to contend about the Lord's Table, but it is off your subject. Another day - maybe.

The ancient "Illumined" ones, a mixture of politicians and scientists, knew that the earth was round. But they kept this information from the illiterate common man. They could predict the seasons and when to plant and harvest. And the lorded this information over the peasant. The prevailing god was the sun-god. Because the majority of the world's population lived in the northern hemisphere, these Illumined ones knew that the sun would appear to head southwards until 21st December (lets not fight about calenders). So they stirred up the people to light candles to bonfires to call the sun-god back, pointing out that if he continued southwards the world would go dark and freeze over. By the 24th December it was obvious to all the the sun-god was coming back - and so a great feast for the resurrection of the sun-god was celebrated.

All six world powers from Egypt to Rome have had the same religion. Just the names changed. So when Constantine, declared Christianity a state approved religion, the feast remained but a Christian name was given. And so the great dragon of Revelation has a good laugh every years as millions of Christians celebrate a CREATURE - the winter solstice with the sun-god in the midst. If they are told of this, the average Christian shrugs and says that he'll remember Jesus. That is akin to instituting a feast day in Israel on Hitler's birthday and when taxed about it, reply; "we'll keep Hitler's day but think of Ben Gurion".

Our Lord Jesus must have known something. His people would make a day out of His birth-date and then make some traditions of men. So He neither revealed the date nor asked for festivities. The sheep where out with the shepherds. It was lambing time- Maybe early November. Luke says He was about 30 and started His ministry in Galilee. If there had been a Feast of the Law, Luke might have recorded that He was in Jerusalem. He didn't. We can only speculate - except that it was not on the 24th December.

[missmuffet]

The Bible does not say that Jesus was born mid-winter. No one knows when He was born for sure. It would only be speculation. 

[David1701]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

(from Quora Digest)

 

 

Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Roman Catholic invention under the heading of benevolently changing a traditionally pagan holiday (Saturnalia) into a Christian observation of the birth of Jesus.

There is no way to determine exactly the day of the year he was born.

Other than the account of this event actually happening, no religious observation of it is required or even suggested. Jesus did say to remember his DEATH until he returns (by observing the Passover Seder portion of the broken matzoh and 3rd the cup of redemption which defines what Passover is truly about).

The Roman Catholics also screwed that up with their tradition of the Eucharist (and the Protestants do the Last Supper which more or less stems from the Roman Catholic Eucharist).

“As often as you do this” do in remembrance of me… meant to the Jews in company who understood what he was referring to as often as you do this as Passover Seder.

John 1:14 gives us a hint as to when Jesus was actually born (during the feast of tabernacles) in that John 1:14 states in the Greek that he tabernacled among us. Sometime in September / October depending on the lunar Jewish calendar that year (most agree it was 3–7 BCE). The Roman Catholics also got the year wrong.

I think it's likely that Jesus was born on the 10th day of the first month of the Jewish religious calendar (Nissan) - the day that the Passover lamb is selected, which would be around the end of March or beginning of April.

[Ghostdog]

and let the christmas bashng begin

[tim_from_pa]

I love it.  This comes out every year (as do Easter posts at Easter time).  But I won't be nasty like in my younger days.  Tradition dies hard.  But yeah, if I had to pull a date out of the Bible, the clue as to when His birth was is in Revelation 12:1 which to us Sir Isaac Newton theologian types is code for an astronomical position.  The passage of scripture is a sign that John saw referencing Jesus' birth.

There are certain astronomical/mathematical criteria I believe regarding His birth, His death and how many days he lived on this earth.  Consequently, I used those criteria to come up with an exact date of His birth and death.  What I WAS NOT looking for was the day of the week he was born using this criteria and it turned out He was born later on the Sabbath (as Sunday was starting).  Hmmmm. The same day of the week that he arose. And like I said, I was not even looking for that.  I suppose the Lord just threw that in as a bonus.  The dates "worked out" so perfectly that it gave me the chills. LOL

[Tristen]

From my own investigations, I think that the most likely source for this date is an old Hebrew tradition that prophets live perfectly patterned lives (i.e. including the idea that they leave the world on the same day of the month they entered the world). Since Jesus died just before Passover (usually around the end of March), that would mean He was conceived just before Passover, and therefore born towards the end of December (9 months later).

In some ancient calendars, the solstice was on the 25th of December (it's now usually a few days earlier on our calendars). The Roman festival of Saturlinia occurred for the week before the solstice (17th-23rd Dec) - but was not specific to December 25. It is therefore unlikely that this date was "borrowed" from Saturlinia. Furthermore, I was unable to find any evidence directly linking Saturlinia to Christmas (apart from common speculation that Christianity "borrows" its ideas from paganism).

The Romans later celebrated Sol Invictus (Sun worship) on December 25. However, the records of Christians celebrating December 25 for Christ's birth predate any records of Sol Invictus.

 

[BibleStudent100]

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

There is no way to determine exactly the day of the year he was born.

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Jesus did say to remember his DEATH

Perhaps in his infinite wisdom, Jesus realized that IF humans knew the day of his birth, that they would certainly celebrate his birth and for that reason, the gospel accounts are silent on this fact, although it has not stopped most humans from picking a "random date" that just so aligns with pagan practices.

Yes, it is much more important to observe the date of his passing in accordance with his words in the final 24 hours of his life, which we all do here in this forum.  

Sadly, this week, I have seen my first TV commercials for Christmas; it seems these commercials start earlier and earlier each year...

[BibleStudent100]

9 hours ago, Tristen said:

It is therefore unlikely that this date was "borrowed" from Saturlinia

According to The Encyclopædia Britannica, some who called themselves Christians “wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking . . . the winter solstice, when the days again begin to lengthen and the sun begins to climb higher in the sky.” That same reference work notes that many Christmas customs originated with “pagan agricultural and solar observances at midwinter.”
 

[Tristen]

9 minutes ago, BibleStudent100 said:

According to The Encyclopædia Britannica, some who called themselves Christians “wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking . . . the winter solstice, when the days again begin to lengthen and the sun begins to climb higher in the sky.” That same reference work notes that many Christmas customs originated with “pagan agricultural and solar observances at midwinter.”
 

 

Yes - the idea that Christianity 'stole' our traditions from paganism is very popular; especially among secularists. The problem I've found is that when I scrutinize such claims, there is almost never any supporting evidence (apart from other people said so), and there is usually evidence to the contrary.