truth7t7 Posted January 31, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) The saints seen below are the two witnesses being overcome and killed, not believers on earth as many claim, don't be deceived Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Edited February 7, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatwo Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 563 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 114 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/18/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 1/31/2023 at 3:45 PM, truth7t7 said: The saints seen below are the two witnesses being overcome and killed, not believers on earth as many claim, don't be deceived Saints...who are not believers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,008 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,420 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 1/31/2023 at 10:45 PM, truth7t7 said: The saints seen below are the two witnesses being overcome and killed, not believers on earth as many claim, don't be deceived Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. In this your argument fails: The Two Witnesses are killed at the end of the Great Tribulation. Verse 7 show the START of the Beast's reign. That is, the saints are Overcome right at the begining. In this your argument fails. The whole New Testament shows the the majority of saints FAILING. In ALL seven Churches the Lord calls for OVERCOMERS. That implies that the bulk of Christians are OVERCOME In this your argument fails: The Woman of Revelation 12 has three types of Offspring. (i) The Man-Child, (ii) those who had the testimony of Jesus Christ (Christians), and (iii) those who keep the commandments of God (the Jewish Remnant). For various reasons the Man-Child cannot be our Lord Jesus, but it does not matter. What matters is that "those who ave the testimony of Jesus Christ MUST FLEE to a wilderness FOR THE DURATION OF THE 1260 DAYS OF TRIBULATION. It is during these 1260 days that the Two Witnesses testify. And they (i) are certainly not Overcome, (ii) Overcome their enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AdHoc said: In this your argument fails: The Two Witnesses are killed at the end of the Great Tribulation. Verse 7 show the START of the Beast's reign. That is, the saints are Overcome right at the begining. Your claim is "False", the (Two Witnesses) are overcome and killed at (The End) As was clearly shown, the (Two Witnesses) are "The Saints" seen in Revelation 13:7 Revelation 11:7-18 (Verse 7) (The Beast ) kills the two witnesses (Verse 8-10) The two witnesses lay in a literal street in Jerusalem for 3.5 as a literal world watches in celebration of their death (Verse 11-12) after 3.5 literal days of laying dead in the street, the two witnesses are raised to heaven (Verse 13-15) The "Same Hour" the two witnesses are raised to heaven, the 2nd woe takes place in the Great earthquake, as the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" In the 7th Trump (The End) (Verse 18) The "Final Judgement" takes place, also seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV Jesus Is The Lord Edited February 7, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AdHoc said: In this your argument fails: The Two Witnesses are killed at the end of the Great Tribulation. Verse 7 show the START of the Beast's reign. That is, the saints are Overcome right at the begining. In this your argument fails. The whole New Testament shows the the majority of saints FAILING. In ALL seven Churches the Lord calls for OVERCOMERS. That implies that the bulk of Christians are OVERCOME In this your argument fails: The Woman of Revelation 12 has three types of Offspring. (i) The Man-Child, (ii) those who had the testimony of Jesus Christ (Christians), and (iii) those who keep the commandments of God (the Jewish Remnant). For various reasons the Man-Child cannot be our Lord Jesus, but it does not matter. What matters is that "those who ave the testimony of Jesus Christ MUST FLEE to a wilderness FOR THE DURATION OF THE 1260 DAYS OF TRIBULATION. It is during these 1260 days that the Two Witnesses testify. And they (i) are certainly not Overcome, (ii) Overcome their enemies Dispensationalism that many follows "falsely teaches" that the book of Revelation is seen chronologically "False" The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of "Same Events" Example: Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 below, same event in the "Final Judgement" Jesus Is The Lord (The Final Judgement) Revelation 11:18KJV 18 the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Revelation 20:11-15KJV 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Edited February 7, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,008 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,420 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2023 4 hours ago, truth7t7 said: Your claim is "False", the (Two Witnesses) are overcome and killed at (The End) As was clearly shown, the (Two Witnesses) are "The Saints" seen in Revelation 13:7 Revelation 11:7-18 (Verse 7) (The Beast ) kills the two witnesses (Verse 8-10) The two witnesses lay in a literal street in Jerusalem for 3.5 as a literal world watches in celebration of their death (Verse 11-12) after 3.5 literal days of laying dead in the street, the two witnesses are raised to heaven (Verse 13-15) The "Same Hour" the two witnesses are raised to heaven, the 2nd woe takes place in the Great earthquake, as the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" In the 7th Trump (The End) (Verse 18) The "Final Judgement" takes place, also seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV Jesus Is The Lord 4 hours ago, truth7t7 said: Dispensationalism that many follows "falsely teaches" that the book of Revelation is seen chronologically "False" The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of "Same Events" Example: Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 below, same event in the "Final Judgement" Jesus Is The Lord (The Final Judgement) Revelation 11:18KJV 18 the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Revelation 20:11-15KJV 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Okay. I can see how this happened. You answered me from your point of view instead of mine. So let's start again. 1. We agree that the Two Witnesses are killed at the end of the Great Tribulation. Let's not waste more words on that. 2. On what basis do you maintain that the "saints" of Revelation 13:7 are the Two Witnesses of Chapter 11? 3. The word "saints" is used 101 times in the Bible and ALWAYS refers to God's people and NEVER once is it used to designate the Two Witnesses - even when they are personally mentioned in Zechariah 4. But, since they are God's people, they automatically are "saints" 4. Who do you think flees into the wilderness at the beginning of the the 1260 days? 5. If those "who have the testimony of Jesus Christ" are NOT saints, what are they? But if we can agree that Revelation 13:7 refers to ALL of God's people left on earth, and thus they are ALL saints, then don't bother to answer the other questions. Thanks bro - and go well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, AdHoc said: Okay. I can see how this happened. You answered me from your point of view instead of mine. So let's start again. 1. We agree that the Two Witnesses are killed at the end of the Great Tribulation. Let's not waste more words on that. 2. On what basis do you maintain that the "saints" of Revelation 13:7 are the Two Witnesses of Chapter 11? 3. The word "saints" is used 101 times in the Bible and ALWAYS refers to God's people and NEVER once is it used to designate the Two Witnesses - even when they are personally mentioned in Zechariah 4. But, since they are God's people, they automatically are "saints" 4. Who do you think flees into the wilderness at the beginning of the the 1260 days? 5. If those "who have the testimony of Jesus Christ" are NOT saints, what are they? But if we can agree that Revelation 13:7 refers to ALL of God's people left on earth, and thus they are ALL saints, then don't bother to answer the other questions. Thanks bro - and go well Yes the (Two Witnesses) will be a replay of Moses/Aaron in plagues against Pharaoh of Egypt, and yes Moses/Aaron were saints of the Lord Psalm 106:16KJV 16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the Lord. Scripture is very clear, the saints having war against them and being overcome is the (Two Witnesses) screaming at you, before your eyes, same war, same being overcome (The Beast) is given 42 months Rev 13:5, and the (Two Witnesses) the very same parallel time in 1260 days Rev 11:3 Jesus Is The Lord Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Edited February 7, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,008 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,420 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, truth7t7 said: Yes the (Two Witnesses) will be a replay of Moses/Aaron in plagues against Pharaoh of Egypt, and yes Moses/Aaron were saints of the Lord Psalm 106:16KJV 16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the Lord. Scripture is very clear, the saints having war against them and being overcome is the (Two Witnesses) screaming at you, before your eyes, same war, same being overcome (The Beast) is given 42 months Rev 13:5, and the (Two Witnesses) the very same parallel time in 1260 days Rev 11:3 Jesus Is The Lord Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Thanks for the reply. The readers will judge. Go well bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,065 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 Saints are a generic term for Israel/Jews, and John tells us this by the way he wrote in Rev. 17. Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. The Saints are seen by the Jewish Biblical Writers as Israel/Jews and the Church is seen differently, we are called the Martyrs of Jesus here. This simply means that ALL False Religion (Harlot) has killed both the Saints BEFORE the cross and the Church AFTER the Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 1/31/2023 at 4:45 PM, truth7t7 said: The saints seen below are the two witnesses being overcome and killed, not believers on earth as many claim, don't be deceived Revelation 11:7KJV 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:7KJV 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. It is true that the Two Witnesses will be killed. There will probably be millions more killed because they refuse the mark and refuse to bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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