Steward George Posted October 12, 2005 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,464 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,762 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,433 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted October 12, 2005 Dear brothers and sisters, This is a discussion on soul sleep as Trinity and Old Timer exchange their thoughts and positions. Our hope is that we can learn from this discussion and grow as believers, Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 12, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hello Trinity and all who care to read and explore this subject. I am taking the position that between death and the return of Christ, when the dead will be resurrected, that the spirit (or soul as it is commonly called) is in a state of rest or sleep. When we die we don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hello Old Time Thank you for setting this debate up! I hope this will be a very interesting, and low tempered Debate. I would like to open the debate with this question: "Where did Jesus go when he died & why 3 nights?" I believe Jesus went to "Abraham's Bosom" because of 1 Peter 3:18-20: "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit , through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water." Jesus went some where but i also believe he had another Job according to Ephesians 4:8-9: This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions-(depths of the earth)? I believe that during the three days between Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, He descended into Abraham's bosom, proclaiming to them the mystery of the gospel, and then led them into heaven. My belief is no one was aloud to enter into the presence of God in heaven until after the atonement brought by Jesus Christ was fulfilled, and then once that had happened, Jesus descended to Abraham's bosom, to then lead those from Abraham's Bosom into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 12, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Joel, (hope you don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 12, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Joel, as to Ephesians 4 (NASB) Eph 4:7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." Eph 4:9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; Paul is speaking of gifts to the apostles. He quotes Psalm 68:18.It is speaking of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2005 The problem is in the phrase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 13, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 13, 2005 (edited) Here is the Problem with your refute statement: If Being quickened by the spirit is making refference to Jesus' Resurection, that would contradict scripture for Jesus said himself in Luke 24:39, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Jesus was not a Spirit. Just quickly, Jesus did not become a Spirit! He was made alive by the Spirit. The same way we shall be made alive by the Spirit at the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. Edited October 13, 2005 by Old Timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 13, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 13, 2005 A comment: In Titus we read of our Blessed Hope, the appearing of our Lord Jesus. Why do I concern myself refuting the doctrine of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2005 According to Titus 2:13 the blessed Hope is, "The glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." The body falls asleep yes, but we live on. Because when the Bible states that someone "sleeping" referring to death like in Luke 8:52 for example, that does not mean a literal "sleep." The term "Sleeping" is a way to describing death because of deaths appearance of looking like sleeping. Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Paul said to Die you will gain much more then on earth. Now, how would Paul be gaining anything through death if he were to sleep 2,000 years? It would seem to me that living till Christ came would be gaining more, but Paul also states in 2 Corinthians 5:8: We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Paul seems to be pretty confident that when he dies he will be Absent from his body, which is much more in gain, because he will be present with the Lord sooner! If you do not believe Paul then surely you will listen to you Master and Teacher, our LORD Jesus Christ when he told the thief in Luke 23:43 while they were on the cross: Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Ill also like to take David's baby who died for example, II Samuel 12:23: "But now he is dead-(His Baby), wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 14, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 14, 2005 (edited) Trinity, you have made reference to several Bible verses; Philippians 12:1, Corinthians 5:8, Christ Edited October 14, 2005 by Old Timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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