Guest yod Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Quite so. It is true that Paul considered his advantages, as supposed, that derived from his Jewish heritage and culture were rubbish, though. Jesus said in Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Do you hate you parents? I assume not...he is making a comparitive statement here just like the verse we are discussing with Paul comparing our righteous works to the knowledge of the Lord's righteousness. Cain needed no instruction to know that murder was wrong. The antediluvians needed no instruction to know that adultery and rape were wrong. The Sodomites needed no instruction to know that sodomy was wrong. No-one at all needs instruction to know that theft is wrong. A baby, made in God's image, knows that. yes there are universally accepted issues of morality. But how many tribes of the earth think adultery is permissable? How many people realize that even envy (covetousness) is a sin? There is more to God's instruction than a few general "biggies" Please do not add emphasis or otherwise tamper with my quotes in future, yod. It is arrogance and misrepresentation imv, which is a form of theft. Thank you for your co-operation. I was pointing out what you ignored and since you don't own those words, I'll do it whenever you add emphasis on the wrong words sheesh...talk about arrogant? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2006 It is true that Paul considered his advantages, as supposed, that derived from his Jewish heritage and culture were rubbish, though. No, he only considered them rubbish in comparison to knowing Christ. He considered them rubbish in order to gain Christ. That is the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2006 Quite so. It is true that Paul considered his advantages, as supposed, that derived from his Jewish heritage and culture were rubbish, though. Jesus said in Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Do you hate you parents? I assume not...he is making a comparitive statement here just like the verse we are discussing with Paul comparing our righteous works to the knowledge of the Lord's righteousness. Cain needed no instruction to know that murder was wrong. The antediluvians needed no instruction to know that adultery and rape were wrong. The Sodomites needed no instruction to know that sodomy was wrong. No-one at all needs instruction to know that theft is wrong. A baby, made in God's image, knows that. yes there are universally accepted issues of morality. But how many tribes of the earth think adultery is permissable? How many people realize that even envy (covetousness) is a sin? There is more to God's instruction that a few general "biggies" Please do not add emphasis or otherwise tamper with my quotes in future, yod. It is arrogance and misrepresentation imv, which is a form of theft. Thank you for your co-operation. I was pointing out what you ignored and since you don't own those words, I'll do it whenever you add emphasis on the wrong words sheesh...talk about arrogant? . You'd get banned from a real debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 You'd get banned from a real debate. Aw...can't deal with the substance of what I said so you resort to childish retorts? your arrogance is showing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Who decides what is key? This is a very strange sort of translating principle. Proper translation uses words that are actually used, and does not change them because they suit a pre-determined interpretation. It amounts to following the line of thought in the greater passages in which that verse is found. We call that context. Plus, you are focusing on only one part of the verse. You are trying force the Torah into that verse, when that is not what Paul is trying to communicate. 'Law brings wrath.' Rom 4:1 NIV Try again... Rom. 4:1 from the NIV: What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2006 You'd get banned from a real debate. Aw...can't deal with the substance of what I said so you resort to childish retorts? Substance? False witness is what should concern people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 It is true that Paul considered his advantages, as supposed, that derived from his Jewish heritage and culture were rubbish, though. No, he only considered them rubbish in comparison to knowing Christ. He considered them rubbish in order to gain Christ. That is the whole point. Yes, but it is still a comparison. Paul is simply saying that he more than most had justification for putting confidence in the flesh. It is a matter of putting things in their proper persective. It is also a matter of priorities. It was putting faith in his accomplishments that would stand in the way of knowing Christ. The same could be said of any Christian preacher today. We, no matter how rich or accomplished we are, must consider our human efforts has garbage in comparison to our relationship with Christ. That does not mean we deplore our accomplishments, but that we see them as they appear in comparison to knowing Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 You'd get banned from a real debate. Aw...can't deal with the substance of what I said so you resort to childish retorts? Substance? False witness is what should concern people. It does. now.. why don't you deal with my statements instead of misrepresenting me with your false witness? Can you do that? I'll post them again so you don't overload yourself. Looks like it's pretty full in there already. Jesus said in Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Do you hate you parents? I assume not...he is making a comparitive statement here just like the verse we are discussing with Paul comparing our righteous works to the knowledge of the Lord's righteousness. QUOTE Cain needed no instruction to know that murder was wrong. The antediluvians needed no instruction to know that adultery and rape were wrong. The Sodomites needed no instruction to know that sodomy was wrong. No-one at all needs instruction to know that theft is wrong. A baby, made in God's image, knows that. yes there are universally accepted issues of morality. But how many tribes of the earth think adultery is permissable? How many people realize that even envy (covetousness) is a sin? There is more to God's instruction that a few general "biggies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2006 Who decides what is key? This is a very strange sort of translating principle. Proper translation uses words that are actually used, and does not change them because they suit a pre-determined interpretation. It amounts to following the line of thought in the greater passages in which that verse is found. Who decides what is greater? We call that context. We call that circular argument. Plus, you are focusing on only one part of the verse. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thank you. And the NIV is not the world's runaway best-seller for nothing. 'Law brings wrath.' Rom 4:1 NIV Try again... Law brings wrath! Did you hear that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2006 It is true that Paul considered his advantages, as supposed, that derived from his Jewish heritage and culture were rubbish, though. No, he only considered them rubbish in comparison to knowing Christ. He considered them rubbish in order to gain Christ. That is the whole point. Yes, but it is still a comparison. It isn't. As many, many Christian preachers have observed for centuries, it is not a comparison, but an exchange. You either have the flesh, or you have Christ. That is not difficult to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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