Revelation is a Book of Love!

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

May I humbly suggest you think a bit deeper. You see God could have taken out the `tumor ` in the first, say century. Why He didn`t is very important.

Okay . . . I see that everything has to run it's course.  That is, the fruit of the rotten tree needs to be fully manifested, because we made the choice to eat that tree and go in that direction of independence from God.  Therefore we need to see the full results of our choice.

And there is the fellowship of sufferings too - these momentary light afflictions cause us to turn to Him and thereby be transformed through allowing His Spirit to work in us.  Without resistance, muscle won't be built and we won't develop into ones who can be placed as sons. So if we participate in the work, we will gain the reward at the Bema.

Howzat?

[Marilyn C]

43 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Okay . . . I see that everything has to run it's course.  That is, the fruit of the rotten tree needs to be fully manifested, because we made the choice to eat that tree and go in that direction of independence from God.  Therefore we need to see the full results of our choice.

And there is the fellowship of sufferings too - these momentary light afflictions cause us to turn to Him and thereby be transformed through allowing His Spirit to work in us.  Without resistance, muscle won't be built and we won't develop into ones who can be placed as sons. So if we participate in the work, we will gain the reward at the Bema.

Howzat?

Some good thinking there bro. I agree. Then we have to think well, why did God make Israel and not just go straight to making the Body of Christ. 

Any thoughts there?

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Some good thinking there bro. I agree. Then we have to think well, why did God make Israel and not just go straight to making the Body of Christ. 

Any thoughts there?

That is an interesting question, and have actually been having some fellowship here locally about this in the last week.  (We're in Romans 9-11 now, in which Israel is a main subject.) One thing we came up with is the idea that God frequently starts small in His operation.  That is, in matters of life (which is solely from Him) He starts with the small and seemingly weak - think tiny seeds growing into huge trees, infants, etc.  He seems to choose such ways so that it will be clear that He's doing it and there's no part of us in it, and He gets the glory for taking something from basically nothing.  Therefore He said of Israel that they were weak and the least of all the nations. (Deut 7:7)

In Romans 11:25 Paul refers to this whole matter of Israel being set aside for our sake as a "mystery" as is their being grafted back in to the root. So why would He do it like this? His ways truly are unsearchable and past finding out!

What is your idea as to the reason God did it this way?

[AnOrangeCat]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I can only reason why the majority do not repent is because of demonic influences and control. Any other thoughts?

I've thought about this too. My main thoughts are in agreement with you that it's demonic influences and control, but more specifically I think how things are presented matters a whole lot. For example, the notions of a soul and consciousness/personality describe very similar if not identical concepts, but a key difference is that the word soul implies the existence of an afterlife and some kind of Creator behind it. Consciousness doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if the pitch ends up being something like... "This thing raining down disasters and plagues on us is a hostile alien. But the AI is hard at work figuring out how we can win."

A bit more fancifully I've wondered if because of things like CRISPR and xenobots (described as self replicating "living robots" engineered from frog cells) a sizable percentage of humans are changed in such a way that repentance is something that just doesn't really occur anymore. Something gets changed on some fundamental level that changes people from being in the image of God to something else.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

That is an interesting question, and have actually been having some fellowship here locally about this in the last week.  (We're in Romans 9-11 now, in which Israel is a main subject.) One thing we came up with is the idea that God frequently starts small in His operation.  That is, in matters of life (which is solely from Him) He starts with the small and seemingly weak - think tiny seeds growing into huge trees, infants, etc.  He seems to choose such ways so that it will be clear that He's doing it and there's no part of us in it, and He gets the glory for taking something from basically nothing.  Therefore He said of Israel that they were weak and the least of all the nations. (Deut 7:7)

In Romans 11:25 Paul refers to this whole matter of Israel being set aside for our sake as a "mystery" as is their being grafted back in to the root. So why would He do it like this? His ways truly are unsearchable and past finding out!

What is your idea as to the reason God did it this way?

Hi VA,

Interesting that your group was discussing this too. Maybe God is highlighting some truth here. Now, thank you for asking.

When looking at questions I always start from God`s perspective, His Purpose. And that He says is to make Christ preeminent in all things. (Col. 1: 18b)

Thus, God has Christ`s Rulership as His predominant focus. Yes, an `operation` is needed but that is just the `means to the end.`

1.Man in the beginning developed sinfully, and as you rightly said till it has `run its course.` Gen. 6: 5 `that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.`

 

2.After the flood God gave man governing responsibility and the nations developed. (Gen. 9: 5 & 6) God knew that no government or ruler of man would rule righteously continually. Thus, God set about to make His own nation who would govern the nations righteously.

Starting small, (as you said previously) with a man, then a family, tribe and finally a nation, called Israel. And God knew that even though He would do wonders in the eyes of His nation that they would rebel against Him. This again reveals that man has no capability to rule righteously.

Finally, Israel`s national rebellion came to a head when they had their righteous ruler crucified. God then sent them into exile while He set about making another group for rulership.

 

3.After the tribulation. However, God did not cast away His nation of Israel, for He knew that man has no capacity to rule righteously. Thus, their righteous ruler (Christ) will set about Atonement for them. (Deut. 32: 43) After the tribulation the Spirit of Grace will come upon those in Israel and they will receive their righteous Ruler. (Zech. 12: 7 – 10)

The nations will have come to a head receiving Satan`s evil rulership and will thus be judged. Those of the nations who looked after the Jews will go into the time of God`s righteous rulership over the nations.

 

Any questions or comments?

Also, I still have another question.

 

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

Interesting that your group was discussing this too. Maybe God is highlighting some truth here. Now, thank you for asking.

When looking at questions I always start from God`s perspective, His Purpose. And that He says is to make Christ preeminent in all things. (Col. 1: 18b)

Thus, God has Christ`s Rulership as His predominant focus. Yes, an `operation` is needed but that is just the `means to the end.`

1.Man in the beginning developed sinfully, and as you rightly said till it has `run its course.` Gen. 6: 5 `that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.`

 

2.After the flood God gave man governing responsibility and the nations developed. (Gen. 9: 5 & 6) God knew that no government or ruler of man would rule righteously continually. Thus, God set about to make His own nation who would govern the nations righteously.

Starting small, (as you said previously) with a man, then a family, tribe and finally a nation, called Israel. And God knew that even though He would do wonders in the eyes of His nation that they would rebel against Him. This again reveals that man has no capability to rule righteously.

Finally, Israel`s national rebellion came to a head when they had their righteous ruler crucified. God then sent them into exile while He set about making another group for rulership.

 

3.After the tribulation. However, God did not cast away His nation of Israel, for He knew that man has no capacity to rule righteously. Thus, their righteous ruler (Christ) will set about Atonement for them. (Deut. 32: 43) After the tribulation the Spirit of Grace will come upon those in Israel and they will receive their righteous Ruler. (Zech. 12: 7 – 10)

The nations will have come to a head receiving Satan`s evil rulership and will thus be judged. Those of the nations who looked after the Jews will go into the time of God`s righteous rulership over the nations.

 

Any questions or comments?

Also, I still have another question.

 

 

 

 

That is basically how I see it playing out . . .  I/we have received some fresh light in going through these chapters (9-11) of Romans this time.  For me, it's been mainly about seeing the proper perspective for Israel, and that it - in the end - is a mystery as to exactly why God is doing it this way!  But that's part of the wonder of knowing God, isn't it?  If things He does didn't have some unsearchable aspect to them, and we were able to understand Him and His actions fully, then I suppose He wouldn't be God!

[Know Jah]

Daniel 2:44 states God's Kingdom will crush ALL other kingdoms and last forever. Now Matthew 6:9 states we should pray for God's Kingdom to come. Is this the same Kingdom?

[Vine Abider]

47 minutes ago, Know Jah said:

Daniel 2:44 states God's Kingdom will crush ALL other kingdoms and last forever. Now Matthew 6:9 states we should pray for God's Kingdom to come. Is this the same Kingdom?

Yes

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I've thought about this too. My main thoughts are in agreement with you that it's demonic influences and control, but more specifically I think how things are presented matters a whole lot. For example, the notions of a soul and consciousness/personality describe very similar if not identical concepts, but a key difference is that the word soul implies the existence of an afterlife and some kind of Creator behind it. Consciousness doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if the pitch ends up being something like... "This thing raining down disasters and plagues on us is a hostile alien. But the AI is hard at work figuring out how we can win."

A bit more fancifully I've wondered if because of things like CRISPR and xenobots (described as self replicating "living robots" engineered from frog cells) a sizable percentage of humans are changed in such a way that repentance is something that just doesn't really occur anymore. Something gets changed on some fundamental level that changes people from being in the image of God to something else.

My thoughts turned out to be a lot longer than I intended, as usual. My comments will probably provoke the ire of some folks here.

We seem to be thinking along the same lines. First, I do not have any unique insight or the first to notice and comment on the following topics. I have written about these possibilities for over a decade, and as time has passed, my thoughts appear to be materializing.

I have mentioned this before on Worthy. Years ago, I wrote my eschatological thoughts and opinions and submitted an article for publication to popular Christian websites such as Rapture Ready. They rejected it as a conspiracy theory and conjecture. These days, those websites publish an abundance of the same thing I submitted. I was curious to ask them, "What has changed between then and now? When and why did you change your policy?" But I did not bother to ask.

UFOs: When I wrote my thoughts and made some connections, I was relegated as a conspiracy theorist, non-biblical and fiction, destined to the trash bin. So much has changed in a relatively short time.

With the advent of cameras and video phones, an overabundance of evidence emerged that cannot be refuted, supporting millions of eyewitness testimonies. Testimonies of a president, governor, astronauts, law enforcement, and tens of thousands of reputable citizens could no longer be suppressed or denied by the government(s). Is our government inept and just plain stupid, or are they covering up, hiding everything, and lying to their constituents? In retrospect, the latter was true with our shadow government. Supposedly, even sitting presidents were not privy to that information.

There is no need to detail the admittance in official government documents and reports UFOs are real and pose a national security and aviation threat. The millions of dollars spent in secret investigations, etc. If they lied to the American people on this, how can we trust anything they tell us? We could all cite many other episodes of the government intentionally lying and deceiving the American people.

Reading their official reports and findings, are they once again stupid or hiding something? Their official report findings are that we do not know. WHAT? Of the possible things these UFOs (now changed to UAPs to downgrade attention) could be. It is conspicuous that the two most probable are not investigated or mentioned, so they say, the spiritual or dimensional. Everything has to have an evolutionary spin and lie to it. Jesus said to take heed in Matthew 24 for deception four times for emphasis.

I suggest people get out a dictionary and acquaint themselves with the word panspermia. We will be hearing this word more frequently soon. DNA geneticists and their evolutionary theory now use this word. I conjecture that this word and representative will manifest in end-time activity and deception.

Genetics: My intent is not to offend anyone with my following toned-down thoughts. Less than a year after this Covid fiasco broke out, I traveled to my small city. A line of cars from our meager hospital stretched more than a mile long, impeding traffic and egress. I wondered what that was all about. I soon learned why: to get the initial drive-through COVID jab. There have been several more long lines since.

I will not disparage anyone getting these jabs, and I am no expert; it is a personal decision, but I have a subjective opinion based on observation.

To my knowledge, the CDC and FDA broke all protocols for this new "jab." Developed, manufactured for the masses, and implemented in less than a year after the purported so-called pandemic. Get this jab once and done.

Shortly after that, no, you will need another booster jab. After that, no, you will need it annually. The science, technology, and predictive computer models are inaccurate. Questions remain unanswered about the long-term effects of computer modeling on actual humans and genealogy.

An untested vaccination takes a great deal of faith and trust; the cure could be worse than the cause. All this discussion is in another thread, and I do not want to debate the pros and cons but how it might relate to the mark of the Beast and the sheep.

The point: Naturally, I have an opinion, and I will omit it, but the implementation of the mark of the Beast appears to be implemented globally about as fast as the initial COVID jab, around a year, according to how I interpret time frames in scripture. It reminds me of eagerness and the long lines I witnessed to receive the COVID-19 jabs; they could not wait.

At this point, I want to interject some incontrovertible conspiracy theories written and announced facts. The globalists, the elite, the New World Order crowd (a.k.a. the UN and its alphabet agencies) intend to reduce the earth's population to 500,000,00 for global sustainability. Does anyone contest that fact?

I take them at their word, and when they implement it, what would be the most proficient, productive, and effective means to accomplish their goals? How would they exclude themselves? I wonder?

All those who receive the mark of the Beast develop grievous boils, ulcers, and sores. That almost sounds like something subdermal implanted that failed and leaked something charging it.

We use the technology today with our debit and credit cards with tiny microchips embedded. Today, RFID chips are in use and implanted in animals and many things we purchase; they are used to track and for inventories. Some companies have adopted microchip implants as a condition of employment for security and access reasons. Thus far, the SCOTUS has not upheld constitutionality and has ordered alternate means.

Now more diminutive than a grain of rice, this RFID chip can contain all your medical, personal, and financial information. There is no need to swipe a card anymore; you can walk past a checkout point without stopping, and your purchases will be automatically scanned and deducted from your account.

Shortly, we can pitch our cumbersome, expensive wallets and purses. Get stopped by the cops for speeding and get a ticket. Sir, show me your right hand or forehead for proof of license, insurance, and registration. Unconscious from an auto accident or heart attack, no problem; your blood type, medical information, contacts, and health insurance is a quick and effective scan away.

We will have a global cashless system by 2030, as outlined and implemented by central banks and some countries right now, under the UN Agenda 2030. Please think of the benefits and selling points: no more robberies for cash, how drug cartels will operate, how addicts get their fixes, no bank robberies or yanking ATMs out of their place, and so forth. What is not to like?

I do not think anyone would deny that DNA tinkering and transhumanism are occurring globally. I will neglect to detail Crispr Cas9 kits anyone can get for the basement enthusiast.

DNA is subjected and altered to produce hybrids and extend human life, improve battlefield soldiers' weaknesses in combat, and astronauts' resistance to the vigor of outer space.

Suppose a technology arrives that can monitor the onset of a heart attack, cancer, or health issue and automatically give an alert via nanobots implant technology, RFID chip, or whatever. Suppose the new technology on the horizon could intervene and stop them in their tracks. What would that be worth? What would you give in exchange?

Who did Christ die for? Did it include fallen angels or animals? What does being created in God's image and likeness mean? How much of a DNA change does it take to make us less human (hybrids) compared to how God created us? Interesting biblical and philosophical questions.

I can not immediately recall the DNA geneticist's name, but she boldly and candidly went on the record and stated <1% of DNA alteration, and we are not fully human. Could this have something to do with those who receive the MOB having no chance of forgiveness and redemption? They are irrevocably damned?

Yes, my long ramblings put me to sleep, too.

[Vine Abider]

20 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

My thoughts turned out to be a lot longer than I intended, as usual. My comments will probably provoke the ire of some folks here.

We seem to be thinking along the same lines. First, I do not have any unique insight or the first to notice and comment on the following topics. I have written about these possibilities for over a decade, and as time has passed, my thoughts appear to be materializing.

I have mentioned this before on Worthy. Years ago, I wrote my eschatological thoughts and opinions and submitted an article for publication to popular Christian websites such as Rapture Ready. They rejected it as a conspiracy theory and conjecture. These days, those websites publish an abundance of the same thing I submitted. I was curious to ask them, "What has changed between then and now? When and why did you change your policy?" But I did not bother to ask.

UFOs: When I wrote my thoughts and made some connections, I was relegated as a conspiracy theorist, non-biblical and fiction, destined to the trash bin. So much has changed in a relatively short time.

With the advent of cameras and video phones, an overabundance of evidence emerged that cannot be refuted, supporting millions of eyewitness testimonies. Testimonies of a president, governor, astronauts, law enforcement, and tens of thousands of reputable citizens could no longer be suppressed or denied by the government(s). Is our government inept and just plain stupid, or are they covering up, hiding everything, and lying to their constituents? In retrospect, the latter was true with our shadow government. Supposedly, even sitting presidents were not privy to that information.

There is no need to detail the admittance in official government documents and reports UFOs are real and pose a national security and aviation threat. The millions of dollars spent in secret investigations, etc. If they lied to the American people on this, how can we trust anything they tell us? We could all cite many other episodes of the government intentionally lying and deceiving the American people.

Reading their official reports and findings, are they once again stupid or hiding something? Their official report findings are that we do not know. WHAT? Of the possible things these UFOs (now changed to UAPs to downgrade attention) could be. It is conspicuous that the two most probable are not investigated or mentioned, so they say, the spiritual or dimensional. Everything has to have an evolutionary spin and lie to it. Jesus said to take heed in Matthew 24 for deception four times for emphasis.

I suggest people get out a dictionary and acquaint themselves with the word panspermia. We will be hearing this word more frequently soon. DNA geneticists and their evolutionary theory now use this word. I conjecture that this word and representative will manifest in end-time activity and deception.

Genetics: My intent is not to offend anyone with my following toned-down thoughts. Less than a year after this Covid fiasco broke out, I traveled to my small city. A line of cars from our meager hospital stretched more than a mile long, impeding traffic and egress. I wondered what that was all about. I soon learned why: to get the initial drive-through COVID jab. There have been several more long lines since.

I will not disparage anyone getting these jabs, and I am no expert; it is a personal decision, but I have a subjective opinion based on observation.

To my knowledge, the CDC and FDA broke all protocols for this new "jab." Developed, manufactured for the masses, and implemented in less than a year after the purported so-called pandemic. Get this jab once and done.

Shortly after that, no, you will need another booster jab. After that, no, you will need it annually. The science, technology, and predictive computer models are inaccurate. Questions remain unanswered about the long-term effects of computer modeling on actual humans and genealogy.

An untested vaccination takes a great deal of faith and trust; the cure could be worse than the cause. All this discussion is in another thread, and I do not want to debate the pros and cons but how it might relate to the mark of the Beast and the sheep.

The point: Naturally, I have an opinion, and I will omit it, but the implementation of the mark of the Beast appears to be implemented globally about as fast as the initial COVID jab, around a year, according to how I interpret time frames in scripture. It reminds me of eagerness and the long lines I witnessed to receive the COVID-19 jabs; they could not wait.

At this point, I want to interject some incontrovertible conspiracy theories written and announced facts. The globalists, the elite, the New World Order crowd (a.k.a. the UN and its alphabet agencies) intend to reduce the earth's population to 500,000,00 for global sustainability. Does anyone contest that fact?

I take them at their word, and when they implement it, what would be the most proficient, productive, and effective means to accomplish their goals? How would they exclude themselves? I wonder?

All those who receive the mark of the Beast develop grievous boils, ulcers, and sores. That almost sounds like something subdermal implanted that failed and leaked something charging it.

We use the technology today with our debit and credit cards with tiny microchips embedded. Today, RFID chips are in use and implanted in animals and many things we purchase; they are used to track and for inventories. Some companies have adopted microchip implants as a condition of employment for security and access reasons. Thus far, the SCOTUS has not upheld constitutionality and has ordered alternate means.

Now more diminutive than a grain of rice, this RFID chip can contain all your medical, personal, and financial information. There is no need to swipe a card anymore; you can walk past a checkout point without stopping, and your purchases will be automatically scanned and deducted from your account.

Shortly, we can pitch our cumbersome, expensive wallets and purses. Get stopped by the cops for speeding and get a ticket. Sir, show me your right hand or forehead for proof of license, insurance, and registration. Unconscious from an auto accident or heart attack, no problem; your blood type, medical information, contacts, and health insurance is a quick and effective scan away.

We will have a global cashless system by 2030, as outlined and implemented by central banks and some countries right now, under the UN Agenda 2030. Please think of the benefits and selling points: no more robberies for cash, how drug cartels will operate, how addicts get their fixes, no bank robberies or yanking ATMs out of their place, and so forth. What is not to like?

I do not think anyone would deny that DNA tinkering and transhumanism are occurring globally. I will neglect to detail Crispr Cas9 kits anyone can get for the basement enthusiast.

DNA is subjected and altered to produce hybrids and extend human life, improve battlefield soldiers' weaknesses in combat, and astronauts' resistance to the vigor of outer space.

Suppose a technology arrives that can monitor the onset of a heart attack, cancer, or health issue and automatically give an alert via nanobots implant technology, RFID chip, or whatever. Suppose the new technology on the horizon could intervene and stop them in their tracks. What would that be worth? What would you give in exchange?

Who did Christ die for? Did it include fallen angels or animals? What does being created in God's image and likeness mean? How much of a DNA change does it take to make us less human (hybrids) compared to how God created us? Interesting biblical and philosophical questions.

I can not immediately recall the DNA geneticist's name, but she boldly and candidly went on the record and stated <1% of DNA alteration, and we are not fully human. Could this have something to do with those who receive the MOB having no chance of forgiveness and redemption? They are irrevocably damned?

Yes, my long ramblings put me to sleep, too.

Can you please repeat that?  

Interesting observations, and who's to say if they are spot on or off . . . ? The technology advances are dizzying. If you consider that mankind basically got around and communicated pretty much as we have up until about 150 years ago, it puts things in a clearer perspective I think, regarding how fast the advances are coming. Up until the mid-1800s people moved around and communicated basically the same way for millennia - wind, horse and ink on paper.  But just look at us now! (LOL)

The marriage of genetic advances and technology is coming I think, where we have electronic/smart implants of some sort, that will allow us to do amazing things. If people were all networked together (aka Borg), what could be done with us!?

In keeping with the theme of this thread - His love toward us in Revelation - all of the evil must and will be manifested . . . the fruit of the "independence tree" fully grown.  But God will use it all, and will bring about His grand purpose in love - bringing many sons into glory!