What role did Jesus play concerning the law.

[MK202002]

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

But elsewhere it says:

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

Edited January 14, 2006 by MK202002

[Guest yod]

Study Romans 7 until it becomes clear to you.

Ask the Ruach HaKodesh for the answer...I don't want to sway you yet it is interesting that no where in the New Testament is a gentile told to keep the Torah. That question came up and they decided against it in favor of letting each person be guided by the Spirit instead.

It's a matter of conscience.

I keep Shabbat because it's good to rest and spend dedicated time with the mishpocha...but if I kept it out of obligation or seeking (self)righteousness, I would be missing the point.

When I miss it...there is no condemnation (Romans 8:1)

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

But elsewhere it says:

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

Well, let's begin with Eph. 2:14,15. Paul says that Messiah is our peace (our reconciler) who has made the two (Jew and Gentile) one and has destroyed the barrier that separated them. According to Stern the concept here is probably the m'chitzah or the wall that separated the Jews and Gentiles in the Temple. The Gentiles were not allowed beyond a certain point in the Temple, upon pain of death.

What Paul is saying in these verses is that Christ has, destroyed in His body, the enmity between Jew and Gentile that was brought about by the Torah.

David Stern makes an interesting observation concerning this enmity:

(1) Gentile envy of the special status accorded by God to Israel in the Torah.

(2) Jewish pride at being chosen.

(3) Gentile resentment of that pride.

(4) Mutual dislike of each other

[mike2]

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

But elsewhere it says:

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

A guy goes to the cash register with his kid to make a purchase

The total comes to $6.50 and he gives the cashier a 10

He gets change for a 20!

He takes his purchase and hurries out the door (the cashier wont notice till quiting time)

Hey son, we just got $10 dropped in our lap, lets get ice-cream!

Some people confuse stupidity with honesty

Thats why we have laws, without them, the world would be a terrible place (wait and see)

Laws are in place for the people OF the world, and the laws we have are constantly being circumnavigated by them

- look at the posted speed limit...evvvryone goes 10 over

You know that change should have been returned and i think you would'nt have even considered keeping it

THATS WHAT CHRIST CHANGED FOR US FOR GOOD when we accept Christ and live a Christian life

WE KNOW, we just know taking that change from the cashier is wrong.

You can make a list of anything you want, that you used to do, that you dont do anymore, because He has written His law on your heart

If we are following the letter of the law in everything we do , then I believe we are doing the MINIMUM God expects of us and we should be ashamed of ourselves because with God in our lives we know "the spirit"of the law, we know better, we must live to a point above the law (TO a higher standard)

[MK202002]

Romans chapter 7 brought a lot to light, thank you. I understand we have the law so we know what is good and evil. I know that I cannot fufill the law by myself and I need Jesus. I understand following the Spirit of the law, and not the letter, but what about all these milcelanious laws? Where in the Bible does it seperate which laws are just for Isreal's govermental system, and which are really what God wants out of a person?

oh boy. What is the law exactly? All of the old testement? The torah is the first 5 books, I know. But if I brought something my preacher with mildew on it, he would think I'm weird. (Leviticus 13:47)

[MK202002]

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

But elsewhere it says:

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

Well, let's begin with Eph. 2:14,15. Paul says that Messiah is our peace (our reconciler) who has made the two (Jew and Gentile) one and has destroyed the barrier that separated them. According to Stern the concept here is probably the m'chitzah or the wall that separated the Jews and Gentiles in the Temple. The Gentiles were not allowed beyond a certain point in the Temple, upon pain of death.

What Paul is saying in these verses is that Christ has, destroyed in His body, the enmity between Jew and Gentile that was brought about by the Torah.

David Stern makes an interesting observation concerning this enmity:

(1) Gentile envy of the special status accorded by God to Israel in the Torah.

(2) Jewish pride at being chosen.

(3) Gentile resentment of that pride.

(4) Mutual dislike of each other

[Guest Conchubar]

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

But elsewhere it says:

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

During Jesus' time, if a rabbi was thought to be misinterpreting a passage from the Torah, or 'the Law', he would be charged with 'destroying the Law'. In other words, causing it to be misunderstood (cf. v. 19). Conversely, correct interpretation was considered 'fulfilling the Law'. He is therefore expaining that he has not come for the purpose of propagating any misunderstanding with regard to Scripture but rather to engender greater understanding. Notice how Jesus follows this with his own interpretation of several passages from the Torah. Jesus is essentially declaring: "Never imagine for a moment that I intend to abrogate the law by misinterpreting it. My intent is not to weaken or negate the Law, but by properly interpreting God's written word I aim to establish it, that is, make it even more lasting. I would never invalidate the Law by effectively removing anything from it through misinterpretation. Heaven and earth would sooner disappear than something from the Law. Not the smallest letter in the alphabet, the yod, nor even its decorative spur,* will ever disappear from the Law."

*The 'tittle' of the yod is the small point projecting from its upper edge, an example of which would be the little jot protruding from the top of the number '1'.

In Ephesians 2.14 Paul informs his audience that Jesus is the "shalom" between Jews and Gentiles, having effectively broken down the m'chitzah, or the wall of the Temple in Jerusalem that separated the Court of the Gentiles from the inner court where Jews could freely enter to worship God. According to Josephus, at each of the gates situated around this wall there was posted a sign that warned Gentiles from passing further 'upon pain of death'. Pauls says it was by his own death that Jesus removed this dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles explaining that we are now all one and equally entitled to enter into full worship of YHWH.

Romans 10.1-4 could be rendered: "Brothers, my heart's deepest desire and my prayer to God for Israel is for their salvation; for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; for since they are unaware of God's way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God's way of making people righteous. For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts." Jesus is 'the end of the Law' in the same way that shooting a puck in the net is 'the end of playing hockey'.

Does this help at all?

[Elihu's Girl]

This Link talks about various types of Law.

The Ceremonial Law was fulfilled by Jeshua (Jesus).

The Moral Law or the Ten Commandments is God's will concerning Human behavior. Through Christ we are not condemned by our failure to follow these Laws, but we continue striving to live by these laws.

Mattityahu (Matthew) 7:12 - Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets. (The Jewish New Testement)

Mark 12:28-34 One of the Torah teachers came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua (Jesus) answered them well, he asked him, "What is the most important Mitzvah (Commandment) of them all?"

Yeshua answered, "The most important is 'Sh'ma Israel, Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai echad (Hear O Isreal, the LORD our God, the LORD is one) and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your understanding, and with all your strength.'

"The second is this: 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other mitzvah greater than these."

The Torah Teacher said to him, "Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him; and that loving him with all one's heart, understanding and strengh, and loving one's neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Yeshua saw that he responded sensibly, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

Edited March 24, 2006 by Elihu's Girl

[~SPIRITBLADE~]

This Link talks about various types of Law.

The Ceremonial Law was fulfilled by Jeshua (Jesus).

The Moral Law or the Ten Commandments is God's will concerning Human behavior. Through Christ we are not condemned by our failure to follow these Laws, but we continue striving to live by these laws.

Mattityahu (Matthew) 7:12 - Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets. (The Jewish New Testement)

Mark 12:28-34 One of the Torah teachers came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua (Jesus) answered them well, he asked him, "What is the most important Mitzvah (Commandment) of them all?"

Yeshua answered, "The most important is 'Sh'ma Israel, Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai echad (Hear O Isreal, the LORD our God, the LORD is one) and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your understanding, and with all your strength.'

"The second is this: 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other mitzvah greater than these."

The Torah Teacher said to him, "Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him; and that loving him with all one's heart, understanding and strengh, and loving one's neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Yeshua saw that he responded sensibly, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

and to this, iwould say, (in my tiny lil' Christian mind)-

If i love God with ALL MY HEART, wouldn't i CHOOSE to KEEP the WHOLE LAW-?

or do i show all my love by SELECTIVELY living as commanded-?

do you think i can show the love of ALL MY HEART, by disregarding whatever I FEEL GOD doesn't want-?

or do i show "All the LOVE in my HEART" by IGNORING HIS WORD-??

kinda more rhetorical, i guess-

[Elihu's Girl]

This Link talks about various types of Law.

The Ceremonial Law was fulfilled by Jeshua (Jesus).

The Moral Law or the Ten Commandments is God's will concerning Human behavior. Through Christ we are not condemned by our failure to follow these Laws, but we continue striving to live by these laws.

Mattityahu (Matthew) 7:12 - Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets. (The Jewish New Testement)

Mark 12:28-34 One of the Torah teachers came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua (Jesus) answered them well, he asked him, "What is the most important Mitzvah (Commandment) of them all?"

Yeshua answered, "The most important is 'Sh'ma Israel, Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai echad (Hear O Isreal, the LORD our God, the LORD is one) and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your understanding, and with all your strength.'

"The second is this: 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other mitzvah greater than these."

The Torah Teacher said to him, "Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him; and that loving him with all one's heart, understanding and strengh, and loving one's neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Yeshua saw that he responded sensibly, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

and to this, iwould say, (in my tiny lil' Christian mind)-

If i love God with ALL MY HEART, wouldn't i CHOOSE to KEEP the WHOLE LAW-?

or do i show all my love by SELECTIVELY living as commanded-?

do you think i can show the love of ALL MY HEART, by disregarding whatever I FEEL GOD doesn't want-?

or do i show "All the LOVE in my HEART" by IGNORING HIS WORD-??

kinda more rhetorical, i guess-

What do you mean by "the whole law?" We should try to keep the ten commandments as I said in my post. We should try our hardest to keep the Ten Commandments. Our salvation is in Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying, and the links are not saying to abandon the law. They are just specifying the different types of "law" found in the old testament. By the whole law, you don't mean the temple sacrifices do you? You don't mean stoning people for various offenses? Well these are examples of sacrificial law and the ancient laws governing Isreal. These laws are no longer in effect.

I think we would all choose to keep the whole law of the Ten Commandments and live perfectly, in perfect imitation of Jesus Christ. Yes, loving the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind is an active love. As we grow as Christians (at least for me) we find that we want to live as Jesus lived more and more. We will fall and sin but in Jesus we are forgiven and can pick ourselves up and try again.

We shouldn't use the words of this passage as an excuse to live in sin, but as an encouragement, hope that we can try our hardest to live by the example of Jesus, without fear of death and damnation. Jesus paid the price. He fulfilled the Ceremonial Law as the ultimate sacrifice. He took our place on the cross.