What role did Jesus play concerning the law.

[thereselittleflower]

On 9/15/2006 at 2:51 PM, Naziyr said:

Shalom...

 

This is sad... Antinomianism is not Righteousness. Antinomianism is when people think that Grace and Faith makes the Law non applicable and not to be practiced. These same Antinomians are what Peter the Apostle talks about when He says:

 

Nope

That's not what Antinomianism is.

THIS is what it is:

• Definition of antinomian. 1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. 2 : one who rejects a socially established morality.

 

Notice it doesn't just say "law"  it says  "the moral law."

by failing to make this distinction you have conflated the Mosaic law with the moral law as if they are identical.

The Mosaic Law is hung on the moral law of God.

Just because we don't need the Mosaic law anymore doesn't mean we do away with God's moral law.

Quite the contrary.

The Mosaic law was a schoolmaster.  As I said above, the schoolmaster's job is to teach a lesson.  When the lesson is learned, understood and this is demonstrated, the schoolmater's job is done, and he is no longer needed.

The Mosaic law's purpose and job is finished, for Jesus fulfilled it all perfectly and so perfectly demonstrated the lesson was learned.   So the need for the schoolmaster, the need to be under the schoolmaster, is no more.   In Christ we have graduated and left behind our early teacher the schoolmater, the Mosaic law, just as we left behind our grade school teachers when we graduated onto high school.   We remember the lessons, but we are not under their control or authority any longer.

The moral law of God is this the ROYAL LAW which is summed up in the TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS:

• Thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength
• Thou shalt love they neighbor as thyself.

 

Antinomianism would say that there is no need  for the ROYAL law of love which is God's moral law.

Saying that we no longer are under the schoolmaster, the Mosaic law, does not in anyway do away with God's ROYAL Law.   

We have graduated into the freedom of the Sons of God to keep the Royal Law.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2006 at 7:44 PM, MK202002 said:

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

 

But elsewhere it says:

 

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

 

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

 

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

 

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

Hello MK. I would only point out some things that have struck me when reading some of these verses. I will start with the one concerning Paul's letter/s in 2nd Peter 3:15 & 16.

So, often people will say Paul is hard to understand, and use this scripture for that. But look at what this verse actually says, and decide for yourself.

1. Read what Peters letter to them is about......

Peter is writing them concerning future events. The day of the Lord, and the Lord's longsuffering (length of time) which seems so long to us waiting for him.

2 Peter 3:15  And  account that the longsuffering of our Lord  is salvation ; even as our  beloved brother Paul  also according to  the wisdom  given  unto him  hath written  unto you;

2. Peter says, just like he has written on this subject, so also has Paul written to them on this same subject. 

take note of this verse is about the subject matter , which Peter himself is likewise writing of these things.

16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

3. Also notice the italic "his" is an addition by the translator in the above verse.
 

Therefore it is the subject matter that is difficult to understand, not all Paul's epistles.

Future things can be difficult to understand. Peter is now writing them twice, and Paul at least once concerning these things.

Which Peter himself says why.  It is difficult to understand. Which others will use to distort  written scripture.

As for fulfilling the law......

Often times when Paul speaks of the law, he speaks of the covenants which are contained in the law, unto Abraham the father of us all. It does not always mean the Levitical law from Sinai only.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Joline said:

Hello MK. I would only point out some things that have struck me when reading some of these verses. I will start with the one concerning Paul's letter/s in 2nd Peter 3:15 & 16.

So, often people will say Paul is hard to understand, and use this scripture for that. But look at what this verse actually says, and decide for yourself.

1. Read what Peters letter to them is about......

Peter is writing them concerning future events. The day of the Lord, and the Lord's longsuffering (length of time) which seems so long to us waiting for him.

2 Peter 3:15  And  account that the longsuffering of our Lord  is salvation ; even as our  beloved brother Paul  also according to  the wisdom  given  unto him  hath written  unto you;

2. Peter says, just like he has written on this subject, so also has Paul written to them on this same subject. 

take note of this verse is about the subject matter , which Peter himself is likewise writing of these things.

16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

3. Also notice the italic "his" is an addition by the translator in the above verse.
 

Therefore it is the subject matter that is difficult to understand, not all Paul's epistles.

Future things can be difficult to understand. Peter is now writing them twice, and Paul at least once concerning these things.

Which Peter himself says why.  It is difficult to understand. Which others will use to distort  written scripture.

As for fulfilling the law......

Often times when Paul speaks of the law, he speaks of the covenants which are contained in the law, unto Abraham the father of us all. It does not always mean the Levitical law from Sinai only.

Conclusion IMO. Judge nothing before its time. Focus on the gospel in which you stand NOW. What you have in Christ, and the future things will not disappoint those standing by faith in his salvation ALREADY attained for us.

[JohnD]

On 1/14/2006 at 9:44 PM, MK202002 said:

Jesus says Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." and

 

But elsewhere it says:

 

Ephesians 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

 

and....Romans 10:4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

Not understanding exactly what Jesus did to the law has brought up a number of questions for me as to what God wants from me (Sabbath, tithing, etc) So far I am discovering God's will in these issues one at a time, but I think if I understood exactly what Jesus did, then I could see a bigger picture, and I would understand more.

 

I read where Paul explains this, but as Peter say 1Peter 3:15 "Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand"

 

Does anyone have insight? Use little words, please!

Human limitations in communication and comprehension. 

For example in an unrelated topic:

Proverbs 26:4–5 (AV)

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

The difference being the purpose and approach to the matter.

Do not be confused by the immediate appearance of contradiction.

Secondly, Jesus is the source of the Law of Moses (giving the Law to the Law Giver as it were). It was to break ground for salvation:

• establishing what we are being saved from
• establishing the requirements for salvation (which we could never meet)
• prophetically pointing to the one who could meet its requirements
• standing as the code of condemnation for all who do not meet the requirements

Jesus is also the source of the Second Law the Law of Grace.

Think of it like this:

The law of Moses is like the law of gravity. The law of Christ is like the law of aerodynamics. The law of aerodynamics supersedes the law of gravity when its conditions are met. When the law of aerodynamics is compromised or rejected the law of gravity is still in effect.

 

 

[JohnD]

Just now, JohnD said:

Human limitations in communication and comprehension. 

For example in an unrelated topic:

Proverbs 26:4–5 (AV)

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

The difference being the purpose and approach to the matter.

Do not be confused by the immediate appearance of contradiction.

Secondly, Jesus is the source of the Law of Moses (giving the Law to the Law Giver as it were). It was to break ground for salvation:

• establishing what we are being saved from
• establishing the requirements for salvation (which we could never meet)
• prophetically pointing to the one who could meet its requirements
• standing as the code of condemnation for all who do not meet the requirements

Jesus is also the source of the Second Law the Law of Grace.

Think of it like this:

The law of Moses is like the law of gravity. The law of Christ is like the law of aerodynamics. The law of aerodynamics supersedes the law of gravity when its conditions are met. When the law of aerodynamics is compromised or rejected the law of gravity is still in effect.

 

 

The OP asked for few words, which is why I generalized these critical points.

[JohnD]

The Law of Christ

Galatians 6:2 (AV)

2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:19–21 (NASB95)

19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

1 Corinthians 9:19–21

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law (of Moses), as under the Law (of Moses) though not being myself under the Law (of Moses), so that I might win those who are under the Law (of Moses);

to those who are without the law (of Moses), as without the law (of Moses), though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without the law (of Moses).

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (NASB95)

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

[Guest]

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

Human limitations in communication and comprehension. 

For example in an unrelated topic:

Proverbs 26:4–5 (AV)

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

The difference being the purpose and approach to the matter.

Do not be confused by the immediate appearance of contradiction.

Secondly, Jesus is the source of the Law of Moses (giving the Law to the Law Giver as it were). It was to break ground for salvation:

• establishing what we are being saved from
• establishing the requirements for salvation (which we could never meet)
• prophetically pointing to the one who could meet its requirements
• standing as the code of condemnation for all who do not meet the requirements

Jesus is also the source of the Second Law the Law of Grace.

Think of it like this:

The law of Moses is like the law of gravity. The law of Christ is like the law of aerodynamics. The law of aerodynamics supersedes the law of gravity when its conditions are met. When the law of aerodynamics is compromised or rejected the law of gravity is still in effect.

 

 

There is the law of faith

Ro 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Gen 26:5  Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

 

[JohnD]

Law of faith = law of grace = law of love = law of Christ