Ovedya Posted April 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted April 4, 2006 These basic biblical doctrines are necessary if we are to have the salvation that God has given to us freely. The problem I find with this statement is that there is not a single verse that I have ever read in the entire Bible which states such. Also, do you bleieve that without water baptism and the gift of tongue speaking, then faith isn't genuine or that salvation is "incomplete"? Why would God begin a work of faith in the believer and then not finish it, or expect that a believer should finish it through works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISDOM Posted April 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,692 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1952 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Chad.... I repeat, you are making the simple, complex. One cannot pay for a "gift", otherwise, it cease to be one. You are either under GRACE or under the LAW. There is no "grey area". **Galatians 3:1** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISDOM Posted April 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,692 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1952 Share Posted April 4, 2006 These basic biblical doctrines are necessary if we are to have the salvation that God has given to us freely. The problem I find with this statement is that there is not a single verse that I have ever read in the entire Bible which states such. Concur 150% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted April 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted April 4, 2006 It is incorrect to say or to imply that faith is not complete. It is also incorrect to state that faith alone does not bring salvation. God's free justification of the believers is based upon the sacrifice of Christ, because He accomplished an eternal redemption for them. It is because of the sacrifice of Christ that God also justified the believers through their faith (Rom. 3:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16). The end result of faith is absolutely salvation (1 Pet. 1:9). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest br.biff Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I believe Ciaphas was high priest that year not Jesus. The thief expressed belief in Jesus as his saviour thats all.Then he went to paradise to be with Him. Remember Christ died first so He had died for sin already when the thief had his legs broken. The thief died under the new covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elihu's Girl Posted April 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 156 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2006 (edited) These basic biblical doctrines are necessary if we are to have the salvation that God has given to us freely. The problem I find with this statement is that there is not a single verse that I have ever read in the entire Bible which states such. Also, do you bleieve that without water baptism and the gift of tongue speaking, then faith isn't genuine or that salvation is "incomplete"? Why would God begin a work of faith in the believer and then not finish it, or expect that a believer should finish it through works? Chad.... I repeat, you are making the simple, complex. One cannot pay for a "gift", otherwise, it cease to be one. You are either under GRACE or under the LAW. There is no "grey area". **Galatians 3:1** It is incorrect to say or to imply that faith is not complete. It is also incorrect to state that faith alone does not bring salvation. God's free justification of the believers is based upon the sacrifice of Christ, because He accomplished an eternal redemption for them. It is because of the sacrifice of Christ that God also justified the believers through their faith (Rom. 3:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16). The end result of faith is absolutely salvation (1 Pet. 1:9). I believe Ciaphas was high priest that year not Jesus. The thief expressed belief in Jesus as his saviour thats all.Then he went to paradise to be with Him. Remember Christ died first so He had died for sin already when the thief had his legs broken. The thief died under the new covenant. Great Posts! I have a question for Brother Chad... Under the belief system of your church believers in Christ who are not fully immersed at baptism go to hell? Edited April 5, 2006 by Elihu's Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted April 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Chad.... I repeat, you are making the simple, complex. One cannot pay for a "gift", otherwise, it cease to be one. You are either under GRACE or under the LAW. There is no "grey area". **Galatians 3:1** Since it is me against the world, again! I will try to address each of your questions or comments. There is nothing complex about the Word of God. By your interpretation, and that of many, you believe that once we proclaim with our mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, that is all that needs to be done. Well, I say that no one in the Book of Acts did this and were saved. They went through the same process time and again. Jesus taught about it and so did all His disciples. Remember that I am not saying these are works that we do for our salvation. They are works of God in our salvation process when we submit or yield to His grace. It takes both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted April 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 I have a question for Brother Chad... Under the belief system of your church believers in Christ who are not fully immersed at baptism go to hell? I have never heard or read anywhere that those who are not immersed at baptism go to hell. We don't seek to judge, but rather leave it up to the only One who will, Jesus Christ. However, it is our goal to follow the Bible and do it to the best of our ability. The Bible clearly shows that immersion is the proper way to baptize: -The word baptism comes from the Greek word bapto which means "to dip." There were other Greek words to indicate sprinkling, but God chose a word to indicate immersion. -Immersion is the only mode of baptism the Bible records. John the Baptist used the Jordan River (Mark 1:5, 9). John immersed Jesus: "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16). Philip immersed the Ethiopian eunuch: "They went down both into the water.... and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water" (Acts 8:38-39). -Paul used baptism to relate a burial with Christ, "Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4). No one is buried by sprinkling or pouring a little dirt on the body, by only by complete submergence. -Since Bible days, other forms of baptism have arisen, but the Bible never describes these forms. Sprinkling and pouring came about as a matter of convenience. Infant baptism, triple baptism by some trinitarians, and postponement of baptism until the deathbed (an attempt to live one's life in sin and still be saved) are all nonbiblical baptismal practices and made immersion even more inconvenient. Here are some reasons why the mode of baptism is important: -Baptism is a biblical command. Since the Bible puts so much emphasis on baptism, we should perform as close to the way the Bible describes it. -Jesus was immersed as an example for us to follow. It is worth doing the way Jesus and His apostles did it. -Other modes of baptism were invented from nonbiblical tradition. Jesus condemned tradition fervently when it caused a deviation from God's Word (Mark 7:8; Matthew 15:6). -The only advantage sprinkling has is convenience and is a poor excuse for not following the Bible. -Immersion demonstrates obedience to God and respect for His Word. -Only by immersion do we retain the significance of baptism as a burial with Christ. I hope this answers your question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted April 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 I believe Ciaphas was high priest that year not Jesus. The thief expressed belief in Jesus as his saviour thats all.Then he went to paradise to be with Him. Remember Christ died first so He had died for sin already when the thief had his legs broken. The thief died under the new covenant. Jesus was the high priest for everyone on this earth and in heaven. He was the ultimate high priest so your argument here is somewhat unimportant. So what you must answer with this statement is why after Jesus death, burial, and resurrection did the new covenant include repentance, water baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost? Are these all just mere ceremony? Why so much emphasis on these events if they were not important in the scheme of things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISDOM Posted April 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,692 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1952 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Chad.... I repeat, you are making the simple, complex. One cannot pay for a "gift", otherwise, it cease to be one. You are either under GRACE or under the LAW. There is no "grey area". **Galatians 3:1** Since it is me against the world, again! I will try to address each of your questions or comments. There is nothing complex about the Word of God. By your interpretation, and that of many, you believe that once we proclaim with our mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, that is all that needs to be done. Well, I say that no one in the Book of Acts did this and were saved. They went through the same process time and again. Jesus taught about it and so did all His disciples. Remember that I am not saying these are works that we do for our salvation. They are works of God in our salvation process when we submit or yield to His grace. It takes both. Chad, come on bruh..*smile* You are making this a "me against the world" situation, and the only time such a statement should exists like that is when you as a Christian are against the "world system", NOT your bro/sis in CHRIST. This is no more than a basic discussion, not personal. Think about what you wrote above ("There is NOTHING COMPLEX about the Word of GOD"). Chad.....isn't THAT what I just said and you JUST repeated?! It's NOT by "my interpretation", it's clearly what the HOLY SPIRIT wrote. I have not put a "comma" where our LORD has placed a "period". You have. Chad, bruh...you are either under GRACE or the LAW. One cannot be a fence straddler. Now, are you going to take ALL 66 books into consideration, or just the Book of Acts?! You quote a portion of Romans 10:9-10, yet you tell our FATHER "no, no....that's NOT enough". You and no one else has that authority, only HE WHO sits on the throne does...our LORD, our KING, not you or I. Personally, I'm not one who wastes time "philosophying my DADDY's Rules". HE gave conditions (key word) to each of us to follow and accept in order to receive a free gift. And HE's made it simple and basic enough for us to understand. Receiving the gift of salvation through faith in JESUS CHRIST is a very non-complex matter. The natural mind doesn't understand it, but the spirit mind does. GOD knows the heart ("and BELIEVE in thine heart"). Don't you think it's rather interesting that all the efforts by the "Heroes" in Hebrews Chapter 11 is centered on their FAITH?!! It's like a nail...the harder you hit it, the DEEPER it goes into the "wood". I love you bruh. Relax and learn the simplicity of our FATHER's Word (Proverbs 1:5; 3:13; 15:10; 27:17....James 1:5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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