kari21 Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I believe in the Rapture because I have faith that God will not punish his children along with unbelievers. Think about it...if a member of your family got arrested for breaking the law, would the police throw the law abiding members of his family in jail along with him? No. God's wrath is to be poured out upon those who reject his mercy and offer of salvation. "How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" (Hebrews 2:3) "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I believe in the Rapture because I have faith that God will not punish his children along with unbelievers. Think about it...if a member of your family got arrested for breaking the law, would the police throw the law abiding members of his family in jail along with him? No. God's wrath is to be poured out upon those who reject his mercy and offer of salvation. "How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" (Hebrews 2:3) "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:9) Thank you for your reply Kari 19. I agree with you in that "God will not punish His children along with unbelievers." As the scriptures you wrote tell us.....God has not destined us for wrath. His wrath is reserved for those that take the mark of the beast: Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10.The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: His wrath is NOT for His children that did not fall for Satan's deceit. Taking "his mark" simply means to fall for his deception. Paul tells us that: 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. From that scripture I believe then that the examples of end times were given to us when Daniel wasn't harmed in the lion's den, when Noah went through the flood, when the 3 Hebrew children were thrown in the fiery furnace but were not harmed.....they went through the wrath but were not harmed. We are His children, He loves us so why would He harm us? He wouldn't. I do believe that the time of the wrath, when Christ comes at His 2nd Advent, will be a time of great turmoil but I don't believe it will last long at all (Maybe 15 minutes). Remember, He Himself will fight the battle of Armageddon and the battle of Hamangog. As long as we do not fall for Satan's deceit we are standing on the Rock and will pass through that time. ........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Can anyone tell me the scriptures that support the notion of Rapture? There are people I have spoken to who say they don't believe in it. I for one do, but have never read the word in the bible. Please respond with Scripture that is the only way I will know for sure that it is a reality. Actually the word "Rapture" comes from a Latin word used in the Vulgate bible. However I have found that no matter what word one uses or how one says it. Whether it be the word Rapture or the words Catching Away it is all talking about the Resurrection of the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Can anyone tell me the scriptures that support the notion of Rapture? There are people I have spoken to who say they don't believe in it. I for one do, but have never read the word in the bible. Please respond with Scripture that is the only way I will know for sure that it is a reality. Actually the word "Rapture" comes from a Latin word used in the Vulgate bible. However I have found that no matter what word one uses or how one says it. Whether it be the word Rapture or the words Catching Away it is all talking about the Resurrection of the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I'm convinced part of the "falling away" in recent times is the falling away from sound doctrine, and from the purifying hope of Christ's unexpected return for the Church, which is not preceded by any signs. Welcome to Worthy and thank you for your reply. The scripture you quoted from 1 Thessalonians is what some take the rapture idea from. However, the subject of the chapter is about where the dead are, not that Christ is coming to take anyone away. The word "air," as in "will meet you in the air," isn't the atmosphere but is instead "breath," as in breath of life - your spirit. We will all meet Him in our spirit bodies. Also, "clouds," is just an expression Paul used for crowds of people. He also used that expression in: Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight..... So, cloud would be as in a cloud of locust, etc. So...that scripture could be read as, Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the crowds to meet the Lord in our spirit bodies... That is difficult for those that have been taught rapture to believe but Paul further addresses it in his very next letter to the same people.... 11 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethern, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, 2.That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, He tells those that didn't understand his first letter that Christ will NOT return until after the apostasy. Those living at that time will go through the tribulation of Satan....the son of perdition. I agree with you in that people are falling away from sound doctrine but there will be signs of when Christ will arrive. We don't know the day or hour but we should know the season. ...........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 The scripture you quoted from 1 Thessalonians is what some take the rapture idea from. However, the subject of the chapter is about where the dead are, not that Christ is coming to take anyone away. The word "air," as in "will meet you in the air," isn't the atmosphere but is instead "breath," as in breath of life - your spirit. Basis? I've never heard this before, anywhere. So, He tells those that didn't understand his first letter that Christ will NOT return until after the apostasy. He's referring to the Day of the Lord, the Second Advent. Then he goes on to describe what must occur before the antichrist is revealed. I'm not certain if your question is about the subject of the chapter or the "air" so I'll answer both. The subject of the chapter is picked up in: 1 Thess.4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethern, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope He then goes on to tell us why we shouldn't sorrow, that "the dead in Christ rise first"....they are already with Him. When He returns, at His 2nd Advent then we who were still living are all changed into our spirit bodies. Meeting Him in the "air" is found in Strong's: Air #109 (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by anal. to blow): "air" ( as naturally circumambient): - air It isn't the atmosphere, as many believe but is our breath, our soul: Genesis 2:7 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life: and man became a living soul. Your next question....returning after the apostasy: Yes, He is referring to the Day of the Lord, the Second Advent....and that won't happen until AFTER the antichrist/Satan and his tribulation which will cause the apostasy. ...........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 'The Ancient Words' 1 Thess.4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethern, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope He then goes on to tell us why we shouldn't sorrow, that "the dead in Christ rise first"....they are already with Him. The dead in Christ are with Him is spirit, but they have not received their resurrection (physical) bodies yet, that happens at the translation (the rapture) How do you know that? You could be right but where is it written? Is it not just as possible that they have received those bodies and when Christ arrives, at His 2nd Advent, then those that were living at that time will "change" into theirs? Or, that all will receive them at the 2nd. Advent? When He returns, at His 2nd Advent then we who were still living are all changed into our spirit bodies. We will have a physical body, like Jesus had when He was on earth. Perhaps they are the same thing. Meeting Him in the "air" is found in Strong's: Air #109 (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by anal. to blow): "air" ( as naturally circumambient): - air Air in this context means atmosphere, in the clouds, above the earth, it even says "in the clouds" No, it doesn't. Air, as used in THAT scripture is #109, shown above....breath, not atmosphere. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. The very same terminology is used in Revelation 4: the voice like a trumpet call, the instant translation That is the 7th trump, when Christ arrives. It is not at all like Rev. 4., at least to me. .......Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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