1 Corinthians 13:8, What do we do with this verse?

[David from New Bern]

I always try to understand opposing views. I believe firmly I have no business arguing something as sacred as God's Word, if I don't care about what He cares about. He desire for the reader (every one) to understand and see the correct interpretation. The Scripture are here for our enlightenment. I would like to always approach His Word with a hunger for a deeper understanding. If I am firm in my belief, not by experience or denominational tradition but by the correct exposistion, I want others to see it as well or at least ask the right questions of the text and give the Holy Spirit opportunity to give the correct answer. I believe there is a difference between argument and a digging session. I want someone to help me dig.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.1 Corinthians 13:8 NKJV

The church of Corinth was a church in trouble in the first epistle. There was a lack of discipline, unity, and fairness. But people were still exercising the gifts often to the detriment of order in the worship service. Paul is bringing the letter to a head, and diagnoses the problem as a heart problem. This statement sticks out in the 13th chapter. It is quoted by many conservative scholars to support a change of momentum in the church where gifts would no longer be employed as a sign to the unbeliever. The verb tense is a future tense. But, I am asking someone who believes that this is not the case to help me understand what is this verse saying if this is not what it is communicating. If this is what it is saying is it a temporary stop of the miraculous or permanent one?

[nebula]

The verse comes in the middle of a huge section dealing with abuse of spiritual gifts - particularly that of tongues. Tongues is the easiest of the gifts to exercise, so naturally it would be the first to be over-used. Paul is trying to set discipline and boundaries in the use of the spiritual gift. He first compares tongues to prophecy and shows how more important that gift is than tongues. And then he show in this particular section how love is even greater than prophecy, in fact of all the gifts.

In the verse about the gifts passing away, it should be noted that he mentions this just after comparing seeing through a glass darkly versus seeing face to face.

Some interpret this to be the formation of the Canon of the Bible.

Yet when I understand "seeing face to face", I don't see that happening until after I die when I am in the presence of the Lord.

So, I do not see the end of the gifts as a past but still a future away . . . when sin is no longer an issue in our lives and there are no non-believers to contend with.

[mike2]

1 Corinthians 13:8 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

The verse itself simply means what it says. Charity or love will continue forever, as God himself is love. When Jesus returns, there will no longer be a need for temporal things like prophesies, tongues, and words of knowledge.

Thats the way I look at it too.

[Fiosh]

I always try to understand opposing views. I believe firmly I have no business arguing something as sacred as God's Word, if I don't care about what He cares about. He desire for the reader (every one) to understand and see the correct interpretation. The Scripture are here for our enlightenment. I would like to always approach His Word with a hunger for a deeper understanding. If I am firm in my belief, not by experience or denominational tradition but by the correct exposistion, I want others to see it as well or at least ask the right questions of the text and give the Holy Spirit opportunity to give the correct answer. I believe there is a difference between argument and a digging session. I want someone to help me dig.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.1 Corinthians 13:8 NKJV

The church of Corinth was a church in trouble in the first epistle. There was a lack of discipline, unity, and fairness. But people were still exercising the gifts often to the detriment of order in the worship service. Paul is bringing the letter to a head, and diagnoses the problem as a heart problem. This statement sticks out in the 13th chapter. It is quoted by many conservative scholars to support a change of momentum in the church where gifts would no longer be employed as a sign to the unbeliever. The verb tense is a future tense. But, I am asking someone who believes that this is not the case to help me understand what is this verse saying if this is not what it is communicating. If this is what it is saying is it a temporary stop of the miraculous or permanent one?

I'm not sure I exactly understand your question. Are you asking if the statement speaks to an end to spiritual gifts in the church in Corinth, or an end in the church in general? (it's late and maybe I'm just fuzzy-brained)

If it is the first, then see Chap.14 where Paul instructs them to strive eagerly after spiritual gifts.

Can you clarify your position just a bit?

Thanks,

F

[David from New Bern]

I always try to understand opposing views. I believe firmly I have no business arguing something as sacred as God's Word, if I don't care about what He cares about. He desire for the reader (every one) to understand and see the correct interpretation. The Scripture are here for our enlightenment. I would like to always approach His Word with a hunger for a deeper understanding. If I am firm in my belief, not by experience or denominational tradition but by the correct exposistion, I want others to see it as well or at least ask the right questions of the text and give the Holy Spirit opportunity to give the correct answer. I believe there is a difference between argument and a digging session. I want someone to help me dig.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.1 Corinthians 13:8 NKJV

The church of Corinth was a church in trouble in the first epistle. There was a lack of discipline, unity, and fairness. But people were still exercising the gifts often to the detriment of order in the worship service. Paul is bringing the letter to a head, and diagnoses the problem as a heart problem. This statement sticks out in the 13th chapter. It is quoted by many conservative scholars to support a change of momentum in the church where gifts would no longer be employed as a sign to the unbeliever. The verb tense is a future tense. But, I am asking someone who believes that this is not the case to help me understand what is this verse saying if this is not what it is communicating. If this is what it is saying is it a temporary stop of the miraculous or permanent one?

I'm not sure I exactly understand your question. Are you asking if the statement speaks to an end to spiritual gifts in the church in Corinth, or an end in the church in general? (it's late and maybe I'm just fuzzy-brained)

If it is the first, then see Chap.14 where Paul instructs them to strive eagerly after spiritual gifts.

Can you clarify your position just a bit?

Thanks,

F

So far we are all in agreement that it says these miraculous events and gifts will end, when, for how long or permanent? Many interpret that there was a time when these gifts were frequent but that need ceased after the NT Canon came about. Some believe there was a huge gap of where these gifts ceased but then was revived a the begining of the 20th century. Others believe these happenings will possibly return near the 2nd Advent of Jesus....etc So my question is open-ended acording to your take. I'm looking for solid rationale for people's belief based on this verse, how each justify their beliefs with it in context.

[abbershay]

well they are still active right now..........

[David from New Bern]

well they are still active right now..........

I couldn't agree with you more abbershay, but there are many that haven't experienced them and don't believe, so they use this verse to claim they passed away already.

This is not an attack but an objective question...so don't be thin skinned...How would you know that what you have expereinced is not a counterfeit or heighten emotion desiring a physical sign to authenticate your realtionship with God? There is no command to experience these things, or is there in your opinion? I'm not questioning your experience but asking you to tell me how you know it is real? Anyone can respond because it is not an attack on anyone. I'm here to either to deepen your conviction or create doubt that will drive you to the Word.

[David from New Bern]

God has asked us to exercise faith in His Word. There are examples in Scripture and rebukes for the seeker of signs and wonders alone. How do I know it is not true? I am told to test the spirits and warned of false signs and prophets. There is a wealth of caution to be exercised according to Scripture. At the risk of starting a run away thread, God has never asked for blind faith, or unsubstantiated faith, but a faith in His Word and His promises...So how would you find Biblical command and cause for a continuation of these things in the Body of Christ?

[David from New Bern]

God has asked us to exercise faith in His Word. There are examples in Scripture and rebukes for the seeker of signs and wonders alone. How do I know it is not true? I am told to test the spirits and warned of false signs and prophets. There is a wealth of caution to be exercised according to Scripture. At the risk of starting a run away thread, God has never asked for blind faith, or unsubstantiated faith, but a faith in His Word and His promises...So how would you find Biblical command and cause for a continuation of these things in the Body of Christ?

I don't believe in seeking signs either David. I am saying we are to be filled with the Spirit and signs will simply follow. I agree we must test the spirits, but I have done so and found some right and others wrong. It comes down to whether what was taking place was Biblical or not.

I also don't believe in exercising blind faith. Everything I believe concerning the gifts is based on scripture. Since it is in the Bible, I believe it is true. We are not called to doubt things because we don't experience them either. We are to believe because the Bible says something is true and reject something because the Bible says it is false. To me the Holy Ghost Baptism, speaking in tongues and gifts of the Spirit are Biblical and I would believe in them if I never saw or experienced them.

What Biblical evidence do you offer for the contemporary use of these gifts other than historical record of their occurrence in the Biblical record? That is the gap in our understanding. OK, you have expereienced it, I will not challenge that, I'm asking what Biblical evidence says these signs will continue indefinitely. I'm not asking anyone to concede their experience as false or counterfet. I'm just wanting someone to either admit they are operating in the area of expereince alone or show proof that these gifts are to continue. If the miraculous is still the way God moves the church in the faith we should all be seeking it.

[David from New Bern]

God has asked us to exercise faith in His Word. There are examples in Scripture and rebukes for the seeker of signs and wonders alone. How do I know it is not true? I am told to test the spirits and warned of false signs and prophets. There is a wealth of caution to be exercised according to Scripture. At the risk of starting a run away thread, God has never asked for blind faith, or unsubstantiated faith, but a faith in His Word and His promises...So how would you find Biblical command and cause for a continuation of these things in the Body of Christ?

I don't believe in seeking signs either David. I am saying we are to be filled with the Spirit and signs will simply follow. I agree we must test the spirits, but I have done so and found some right and others wrong. It comes down to whether what was taking place was Biblical or not.

I also don't believe in exercising blind faith. Everything I believe concerning the gifts is based on scripture. Since it is in the Bible, I believe it is true. We are not called to doubt things because we don't experience them either. We are to believe because the Bible says something is true and reject something because the Bible says it is false. To me the Holy Ghost Baptism, speaking in tongues and gifts of the Spirit are Biblical and I would believe in them if I never saw or experienced them.

What Biblical evidence do you offer for the contemporary use of these gifts other than historical record of their occurrence in the Biblical record? That is the gap in our understanding. OK, you have expereienced it, I will not challenge that, I'm asking what Biblical evidence says these signs will continue indefinitely. I'm not asking anyone to concede their experience as false or counterfet. I'm just wanting someone to either admit they are operating in the area of expereince alone or show proof that these gifts are to continue. If the miraculous is still the way God moves the church in the faith we should all be seeking it.

Acts 2:39 "For this promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

The Lord called me in 1982. Since the Lord was still calling then, the gift was to me. I would imagine you believe he is still calling people in 2006, so that means the gifts are for them as well.

Now, how about Biblical evidence to show these signs are not going to continue till Jesus returns?

This is Peter's salvation message in which 3,000 were saved. He is speaking of salvation that you and I are enjoying today.