1 Corinthians 13:8, What do we do with this verse?

[David from New Bern]

Well, things are improving on the thread, Butero now compares me to Charles Stanley It seems Vitality is somewhere between our two positions. Yes, I have been rightly represented by my friend, I believe the infilling of the Spirit is synonymous with salvation in the post pentecost experience and their are many fillings beyond that in our life of sanctification. I had a coached childhood experience with speaking in tongues, but is nothing that I seek now or expect as part of my worship or service. I see a lot of theological problems with the many subpoints that people attach to speaking in tongues. I have definite real life experiences to draw from when I make this statement. I have seen no deeper walk from people who claim that they have the gift, no greater discipline and no greater insight into the faith. I usually see it from emotionally, extroverted worshippers who are generally that as part of their lifetime personality makeups. Yet, the majority of proclaimers of this gift believe they have experienced 1) Salvation 2) Sanctification 3) Filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues. In the 2-3 churches that I have belonged in which I was a consistent worshipper, there is usually less than a half-dozen people operating in the "tongues" while the marjority observes on any given Sunday night when generally it is dispayed. Most in the church of 200-250 were wondering if they were less spiritual because they didn't and had not. I believe this is wrong and promotes a performance model rather than a grace model for our relationships with God and our fellow brothers and sisters. Let me say, I enjoy emotional worship and I recognize annointing and the sense of his presence and I crave that and cherish it when I feel it. I couldn't get in the pulpit if I didn't sense the Holy Spirit's involvment. I wouldn't attempt to leave home without taking Him with me everyday. And I have experienced the chastisement from quenching the Spirit frequently.

[K.L.]

I'm in real need to add to this discussion. To me both of you have been offensive. I get this quit a bit in my life, where one gentile will challenge another gentile and tell the jew to shut up. It's not intensional I'm mature enough to know that, but the treatment is the same. The Jew is left out of the Gentile's Church. One Calling "Pentecost" a Gentile movement is an error. "Pentecost" (pentēkostē in greek) means "fiftieth". It is the Hebrew feast of weeks. Seven weeks from the feast of First Fruits (Ressurection Sunday) to the Feast of Weeks. Yeshua rose on the Feast of First Fruits because he is the first fruits, as is the Barley. The Spirit of God (Rauch Hakodesh) came down during the feast of weeks, on this appointed time. Which is what the Law says the feasts are, appointed times. The Feast of Weeks is a Feast of the First Fruits of the Wheat. There is so much to this understanding, but I'm not amongst friendly territory.

There is so much vinegar in "gentile" believers to remain in "control". It is in the opinion of scripture that by your acceptance to God through his son Yeshua, you are no longer a member of the world (nations-Genitles) but one in the Body of Yeshua. You have been grafted into the Hebrew vine, not the Hebrew grafted into the Gentile vine. (I mean Hebrew, Yahweh, not talmud Jew.)

What about the sacrifical law? Should we start sacrificing? Isn't that the way it was said? What about the sacrifical and ceremonial laws? Paul did it. Acts 21:18-27 (ceremony of purification). The sacrifice? Is not Yeshua our perfect sacrifice? Has his sacrifice destroyed the need of a sacrifice? So if the sacrifical law is dead, then we have no need of Yeshua's sacrifice. No it is very much alive, as is our need of Yeshua's sacrifice. What better atonement can you give and for what sin is greater then those forgiven at the sacrifice. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth is The Spirit of the Law. To make foolish statments that the "Church age" is something new, you expose how little you know of scripture, especially that of the Law. Paul makes it very clear! Yet you twist his words like your twisting other scripture

2Pe 3:15-17 And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him; (16) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. (17) Then beloved, you knowing beforehand, watch lest being led away by the error of the lawless you fall from your own steadfastness.

Replacement Theology is an offense to Scripture, God, and all Hebrew Believers.

This wasn't just friendly banter.

K.L.

[David from New Bern]

I'm in real need to add to this discussion. To me both of you have been offensive. I get this quit a bit in my life, where one gentile will challenge another gentile and tell the jew to shut up. It's not intensional I'm mature enough to know that, but the treatment is the same. The Jew is left out of the Gentile's Church. One Calling "Pentecost" a Gentile movement is an error. "Pentecost" (pentēkostē in greek) means "fiftieth". It is the Hebrew feast of weeks. Seven weeks from the feast of First Fruits (Ressurection Sunday) to the Feast of Weeks. Yeshua rose on the Feast of First Fruits because he is the first fruits, as is the Barley. The Spirit of God (Rauch Hakodesh) came down during the feast of weeks, on this appointed time. Which is what the Law says the feasts are, appointed times. The Feast of Weeks is a Feast of the First Fruits of the Wheat. There is so much to this understanding, but I'm not amongst friendly territory.

There is so much vinegar in "gentile" believers to remain in "control". It is in the opinion of scripture that by your acceptance to God through his son Yeshua, you are no longer a member of the world (nations-Genitles) but one in the Body of Yeshua. You have been grafted into the Hebrew vine, not the Hebrew grafted into the Gentile vine. (I mean Hebrew, Yahweh, not talmud Jew.)

What about the sacrifical law? Should we start sacrificing? Isn't that the way it was said? What about the sacrifical and ceremonial laws? Paul did it. Acts 21:18-27 (ceremony of purification). The sacrifice? Is not Yeshua our perfect sacrifice? Has his sacrifice destroyed the need of a sacrifice? So if the sacrifical law is dead, then we have no need of Yeshua's sacrifice. No it is very much alive, as is our need of Yeshua's sacrifice. What better atonement can you give and for what sin is greater then those forgiven at the sacrifice. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth is The Spirit of the Law. To make foolish statments that the "Church age" is something new, you expose how little you know of scripture, especially that of the Law. Paul makes it very clear! Yet you twist his words like your twisting other scripture

2Pe 3:15-17 And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him; (16) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. (17) Then beloved, you knowing beforehand, watch lest being led away by the error of the lawless you fall from your own steadfastness.

Replacement Theology is an offense to Scripture, God, and all Hebrew Believers.

This wasn't just friendly banter.

K.L.

K.L...Somewhere in all this we have chosen poor verbage evidently, but for clarification the Jewish people are still God's chosen people. There is still a covenant and God is not through with the Jewish people. I believe His greatest miracles are yet to be experienced in these closing days. "To the Jew first and then the Gentile" is a frequent phrase of the NT and there is no denying this fact. But, we all tend to be a little ethnocentric. And by my understanding you are my brother in the Lord....Where is Zola Levitt when you need him

[vitality22004]

David, it really saddens me to hear of your childhood experience surrounding the gifts of the Spirit and arrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! I get so mad when I think of the countless wonderful people who love God with all their heart who have been put off by our bungling and limited revelation of the experience of the Holy Spirit.

Just for the record, I was raised in a Full gospel church....my dad didn't speak in tongues because at that time there was little teaching around it in our country, but he operated in the gifts very powerfully and there were many healings and miracles under his lay ministry. His relationship with God was sooooo awesome and long after he died, I realised that he was filled with the Spirit, could have spoken in tongues as the Spirit gave him utterance if he chose to but didn't know he could and so he never did. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance, we the ones that do the talking....the purpose of which is to deepen our prayer relationship with him and to stir up the gifts within us....and yes, tongues and interpretation were meant as a sign to the unbelievers.

For me, it's not about the public display though...cos if we are still at the level of wanting the display of gifts to prove God's presence is there...we are immature in our faith...it is about my private relationship with the Holy Spirit..His and my language..when I don't know how to pray in a situation....i pray in the Spirit for a while, then in my understanding and it's always clearer for me....my children know nothing else...they worship through the day in their own special language with Him. I have watched them grow in revelation knowledge and understanding so I know it works.

I spend most of my day counselling and I absolutely rely on the revelation gifts...word of knowledge, word of wisdom and the discerning of spirits every single day so that I can give Godly counsel and not my opinion. The gifts were never meant for a platform public display for an hour on a Sunday...they flow as a result of a love relationship with the Holy Spirit and were meant to empower you for ministry..... I love Him so much and it grieves me that He is so misunderstood and misrepresented because of our own carnality....don't get hooked on theological debate that plagued the Corinthian church and lose the essence of the precious Holy Spirit and His gifts for it is Him who changes us into the image of Jesus by His presence in our lives.

[David from New Bern]

David, it really saddens me to hear of your childhood experience surrounding the gifts of the Spirit and

arrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! I

get so mad when I think of the countless wonderful people who love God with all their heart who have been put off by our bungling and limited revelation of the experience of the Holy Spirit.

Just for the record, I was raised in a Full gospel church....my dad didn't speak in tongues because at that time there was little teaching around it in our country, but he operated in the gifts very powerfully and there were many healings and miracles under his lay ministry. His relationship with God was sooooo awesome and long after he died, I realised that he was filled with the Spirit, could have spoken in tongues as the Spirit gave him utterance if he chose to but didn't know he could and so he never did. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance, we the ones that do the talking....the purpose of which is to deepen our prayer relationship with him and to stir up the gifts within us....and yes, tongues and interpretation were meant as a sign to the unbelievers.

For me, it's not about the public display though...cos if we are still at the level of wanting the display of gifts to prove God's presence is there...we are immature in our faith...it is about my private relationship with the Holy Spirit..His and my language..when I don't know how to pray in a situation....i pray in the Spirit for a while, then in my understanding and it's always clearer for me....my children know nothing else...they worship through the day in their own special language with Him. I have watched them grow in revelation knowledge and understanding so I know it works.

I spend most of my day counselling and I absolutely rely on the revelation gifts...word of knowledge, word of wisdom and the discerning of spirits every single day so that I can give Godly counsel and not my opinion. The gifts were never meant for a platform public display for an hour on a Sunday...they flow as a result of a love relationship with the Holy Spirit and were meant to empower you for ministry..... I love Him so much and it grieves me that He is so misunderstood and misrepresented because of our own carnality....don't get hooked on theological debate that plagued the Corinthian church and lose the essence of the precious Holy Spirit and His gifts for it is Him who changes us into the image of Jesus by His presence in our lives.

Vitality...I sense that you have a very sweet spirit about you...but, all I can say is I recognize your comment and have read it several times for impact. However, if I were to respond there is nothing here to discuss but experience. I have a worship and devotional life too. I do not speak in tongues or have a prayer language, but I experience His presence very warmly. I am in constantly in the Scripture and involved in ministry. I enjoy seeing God working all around me. I will not tell you what you expereince is not real, I just reject anyone insistance that this is God's progressive plan of sanctification. I am not limiting my Spirit led experience. By the way arrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhh!!! interpret this for me?

[vitality22004]

That's South African for.....zzzzxx!!#**zzZZxx!!!**xxxzzzzz***##!!!%%!!! ....lol....and i respect your view and look forward to the challenge of finding you Word to back up my experience!!!!!

[germanJoy]

I am neither a Baptist (although I got born-again through a Baptist Preacher) nor a Pentecostal but I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in 1986 alone in my room while I was praying and asking God for it. I knew the conflict between these two denominations and after considering their indifferences, I came into a conclusion that both parties failed to balance the teaching on tonques. While the Pentecostals over-exaggerated or over-used the gift bringing disorder into the assembly and causing doubts/lack of faith to the fellow Pentecostal who do not receive the gift, the Baptists rejected the gift and labeled those who have the gift as "misguided" (some even cross the border line by labeling them as "deceived or works of the devil) and also causing doubts to the fellow Baptists who receive the gift.

The point to consider is A GIFT is given to those who want to receive it; it cannot be forced (those who don't want to have it cannot obviously have it), it is freely given, it is freely received. Not all speak in tonques, not all prophesy, not all preach; not all teach; every believer is gifted differently according to the purpose and plan God has for him/her. If I do not speak in tonques, I have no right to assume that the one who does, is not of God or that tonques had ceased. If I do speak in tonques, I also have no right to assume that the one who does not, is unbelieving or has lack of faith.

But I have noticed that those who speak in tonques are ministering in the power and might of the Holy Spirit while signs and wonders follow them glorying the NAME OF JESUS. I also have noticed that those who do not speak in tonques are very powerful in evangelization also glorying Christ.

So my conclusion is let LOVE reign between the two parties for both are gifted and used by God according to His purpose. Let us all glorify Christ with our gifts; be it tonques, prophecy, word of knowledge, etc.

God bless you all, brethren!

[David from New Bern]

I am neither a Baptist (although I got born-again through a Baptist Preacher) nor a Pentecostal but I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in 1986 alone in my room while I was praying and asking God for it. I knew the conflict between these two denominations and after considering their indifferences, I came into a conclusion that both parties failed to balance the teaching on tonques. While the Pentecostals over-exaggerated or over-used the gift bringing disorder into the assembly and causing doubts/lack of faith to the fellow Pentecostal who do not receive the gift, the Baptists rejected the gift and labeled those who have the gift as "misguided" (some even cross the border line by labeling them as "deceived or works of the devil) and also causing doubts to the fellow Baptists who receive the gift.

The point to consider is A GIFT is given to those who want to receive it; it cannot be forced (those who don't want to have it cannot obviously have it), it is freely given, it is freely received. Not all speak in tonques, not all prophesy, not all preach; not all teach; every believer is gifted differently according to the purpose and plan God has for him/her. If I do not speak in tonques, I have no right to assume that the one who does, is not of God or that tonques had ceased. If I do speak in tonques, I also have no right to assume that the one who does not, is unbelieving or has lack of faith.

But I have noticed that those who speak in tonques are ministering in the power and might of the Holy Spirit while signs and wonders follow them glorying the NAME OF JESUS. I also have noticed that those who do not speak in tonques are very powerful in evangelization also glorying Christ.

So my conclusion is let LOVE reign between the two parties for both are gifted and used by God according to His purpose. Let us all glorify Christ with our gifts; be it tonques, prophecy, word of knowledge, etc.

God bless you all, brethren!

Your comment is given with good intention and your observation is needed. So thanks for posting. But, if I could let me give us all something to think about. If you would allow me to dissapear personality wise and pretend you do not know where I stand on this issue. Now listen to me in a more objective way....

If speaking in tongues is a work of the Holy Spirit for the edification of the work of the church, if it enhances the spiritual intimacy of believers with their Lord, then it needs to be sought and practiced and embraced as a sign of the maturity of a believer advancing in the things of God. If it is not a work of the Holy Spirit, it is a distraction and a disception that Satan is using to divide the church local and universal. Disception meaning well intentioned people are pulled into believing they have something special and comforting that seems legitimate. If that is the case it is a Trojan Horse in the church.

The practice of speaking in tongues is not just a option on the buffet of Christian experience.

[Rober H]

This is what a man by the name of Keith Piper thinks. Keith Piper is a Pastor in Australia and he sums up better than I can what I believe as well.

When that (Greek: To Teleion) which is perfect is come"

The pronoun "THAT" in Greek, describing the perfect, is neuter.

Christ however is masculine, not neuter, so "that which is perfect" cannot refer to Christ or His return. The Bible is neuter. This fits the context perfectly.

"Perfect" in Greek means "complete, finished". The N.T. by 96 AD was completed and finished as God's revelation for this Church age. The completed N.T. canon of Scripture would serve the same purpose that prophecy, tongues, knowledge, apostleship, healing, miracles and other temporary spiritual gifts had once performed. Christ is never called the complete or finished one.

"Perfect" cannot mean Christ's return, becaue Christ's second coming is foreign to the context of I Corinthians 12,13,14 being mentioned nowhere in these 3 chapters. The subject of I Corinthians 12, 13,14 is spiritual gifts to the church in the church age. To extend prophecy, tongues and knowledge into the millenium or after the millenium is to miss the focus and context of the passage.

James 1:25 describes the perfect as the Bible, the perfect law of liberty.

The meaning of "perfect" in scripture can be determined by it's use in other passages of scripture. "Teleion", the "perfect" or "completed" was already in the New Testament when Paul wrote. James had alrady referred to the Word of God as the "perfect law of liberty in" James 1:25.

"But be ye doors of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your ownselves."

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:22, 25.

"Perfect" in James 1:25 in Greek is "teleion" the same as "perfect" in 1 Corinthian 13:10. In James 1:25 "perfect" clearly refers to the soon to be completed Bible, and this must be the same meaning in I Corinthians 13:10.

In James 1:22-25 the perfect law of liberty is the Bible.

Therefore, in I Corinthians 13:10 the perfect is the Bible.

James 1:23 and 1 Corinthinas 13:12 both describe the Bible as a mirror/glass that we see our reflection in.

"For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass." James 1:23.

"For now we see through a glass darkly; but then (when the perfect, completed Bible has come) face to face" 1 Corinthians 13:12.

As we look into a mirror to see our true physical condition of our face, so we look into the Bible as a mirror to see our true spiritual condition.

Some people look into a mirror and forget their physical appearance.

Some people look into the Bible mirror and forget their spiritual appearance.

Therefore, GLASS MIRROR = PERFECT = the WORD OF GOD.

1 Corinthians 13:12 describes the "perfect" as a glass mirror, just as James 1:23 does.

II Corinthians 3:18 also shows the glass, and hence the perfect to be the Word of God, which transforms us.

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord".

The mirror/glass is a symbol of the Word of God. (James 1:22,25).

As we look into God's Word and we see Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit transforms us into the very image of Jesus Christ. "We all" means all believers, seeing in the Bible/glass, the glory of the Lord. "Open face" means that we can hide nothing from God; We must be open and honest with Him.

We can be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ ("He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son....". Romans 8:29) and go from glory to glory, by the Holy Spirit changing us as we saturate ourselves in the Word of God.

"are changed (Greek: metamorphoumetha) into the same image from glory to glory". The Greek word "changed" gives us the word "metamorphosis" which describes the process of an insect changing from an ugly worm into a mature beautiful butterfly. The changes come from within. So it is when we meditate on God's Word and in it see Jesus Christ, then the Holy Spirit transforms us into the image of Jesus Christ.

In the Bible we see the glory of Christ and are changed into His image.

13:12. In I Corinthians 13:12, only a few New Testament books were completed. The glory of the Lord revealed in the word was not complete. First century believers could neither see Christ, nor themselves, in the full light of God's revelation. They could only see darkly or dimly. However with the completion of Scripture, not only would the glory of Christ be revealed in greater fullness, but so would the believer's own reflection become clearer. Why? Because the believer after 96 AD has more Scripture to transform him into Christ's image.

The "perfect" is the opposite of that which is "in part."

Paul viewed his own writings as Scripture (1 Thessalonians 2:13) He knew that new revelation was being given and that one day it would cease. In the same way that God had completed the Old Testament, God would also complete the New Testament. Paul's use of the phrases "we know in part and we prophesy in part" (13:9) show that he is dealing with a partially completed Bible that was being added to by the Apostle's revelations from God.

The Second Coming is never called "perfect" in the New Testament, but the Bible is called the perfect law of liberty in James 1:25.

Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul......."

The completed New Testament fulfilled the same job as did the temporary gifts of prophecy and knowledge. Once prophecy and knowledge were codified (written down) as the New Testament, then prophecy and knowledge ceased. ie. New revelation of prophecy and knowledge ceased when the full N.T. revelation for this age was completed.

Christ's second coming is neither complete nor morally perfect. In the millenium, the sinner will die 100 years old (Isaiah 65:20). The millenium ends with satan's release from the pit and nations rebelling to attack Christ at Jerusalem. Not a perfect or complete situation at all.

Faith and Hope finish at the second coming (13:13).

Therefore, prophecy, knowledge and tongues, each not abiding during the church age, are said to end well before faith and hope ends (compare 1 Corinthians 13:8 with 1 Corinithians13:13).

Prophecy, knowledge and tongues end well before the second coming.

Prophecy and knowledge end by the coming of the perfect, completed Word of God in 96 AD.

Tongues ended by 70 AD, with Titus destroying Jerusalem and the judgment predicted coming on the Jews for rejecting Christ's gospel. You don't warn people after the punishment has fallen.

The completed Bible is able to make believers complete by giving us all things that pertain to life and godliness. (II Peter 1:3,4).

We don't need new revelation.

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory (in heaven) and virtue (now on earth).

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises (in the perfect Bible) that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature (changed from glory to glory)." II Peter 1:3,4.

This is obtained through:

1) the knowledge of Christ found in the Bible, and

2) by claiming the exceeding great and precious promises in the Bible.

Everything that we need today for life and Godliness to make us mature, completely equipped Christians is found in the Bible. Hence, the Bible is appropriately called the "complete

Completer" for us today, the exact meaning of "teleion" in I Corinthians 13:10.

The completed Bible (all Scripture) can make the man of God "perfect" (Greek: "artios739" meaning "complete, sufficient, completely qualified; a synonym of "teleion"), throughly furnished unto all good works". II Timothy 3:16,17.

Here again, "all Scripture" making the man of God perfect, supports "perfect" in I Corinthians 13:10 as meaning the Bible, and not the second coming of Christ. Therefore, when the perfected, completed Bible comes, then the "in part" prophecy and knowledge shall be done away. This happened in 96AD when John finished writing Revelation 22:21.

Why is tongues not mentioned in I Corinthians 13:9,10 as being done away with by the perfect?

Answer: It is because tongues had already ceased in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem, being the judgment on the Jews that tongues pointed to (I Corinthians 14:21,22). After 70 AD, there was no more purpose for tongues, so the tongues gift ceased forever by 70 AD. Tongues were not in existence to be done away with by "the perfect." Tongues had ceased 26 years earlier.

Those who think that the "perfect" is Christ's return and reject it as meaning the completed New Testament Scripture, do so because:

1. They have not studied every word, phrase, or verse of I Corinthians 13 in its context or

2. They are mentally influenced by someone with leaning towards Pentecostalism or

3. They are influenced by some interdenominational teacher whose decision about this scripture is non-committal so as to retain his popularity with both charismatic and non charismatic groups.

4. No scripture is ever produced in proof that the Holy Spirit did not mean the complete New Testament.

If knowledge ended at Christ's return, and if knowledge meant normal knowledge, then all Christians would be imbeciles in heaven.

Note: It is not good to say that God spoke to you and told you to do something, because if you are wrong, you lose your credibility. Instead, say "I felt led or burdened by the Lord to.....".

13:11. "When I was a child, I spake as a child (tongues)

I understand as a child (Knowledge, I thought as a child (prophecy is verbalised thoughts): but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

What have childish things got to do with temporary gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge?

Answer: Paul is comparing a human advancing from childhood to adulthood, with the church passing from infancy in the first century marked by prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts to maturity marked by believers depending on the Bible, faith, hope and charity from 96 AD to the rapture. By 96 AD the childish gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge had ceased, and church manhood had been reached.

So Paul uses 2 illustrations to show the passing of prophecy, tongues and knowledge, and the permanence of the completed Bible, faith, hope and charity for the church age:

a) A person growing from childhood to adulthood and putting away the childish temporary things of prophecy, tongues and knowlege in I Cor. 13:11.

Paul is here saying to the Corinthian believers "put away the childish things of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge, because manhood will soon be reached."

In the first century, a boy was recognised as a mature man when he got married, left his parents home and established his own home.

In the first century, Judaism was regarded as the parent religion, where Christianity (the child) resided. The early Christians enjoyed the protection of Judaism as an officially recognised religion. Christianity seemed like another Jewish sect.

Sulpicius Severus in discussing Titus' destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, states that:

"Titus formed the deliberate purpose to destroy Christianity and Judaism in one blow, believing that if the Jewish root were torn up the Christian branch would soon perish". [F. Farrar "The Early Days of Christianity" p.326.]

Judaism was the parent/home religion and Christianity was the child religion. But with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the church moved out of its childhood home. It became a separate, independent, distinct religion, able to grow without the Jewish temple and without the protective umbrella of the Jewish religious sytem. Christianity had left the Jewish parents home and had reached manhood. It had left childhood behind.

This was another reason for putting away the childish things of tongues."

This was taken from my own website. For more information click here.

http://kjvbible.5u.com/custom.html

Edited June 4, 2006 by Rober H

[thechild]

i see this is an old topic, but i would like to help clarify something, and that is the purpose of gifts. they may or may not be there in any given situation because they are for building up faith. as soon as that level of faith is established, the gifts are no longer needed and will go away. the emphasis is never on the gifts, but on the person and their spiritual condition. just another way man looks at the outward appearance and not on the heart where the focus belongs.