Prophecy and Five-Fold

[Guest Calamity]

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/p01.html

"In Old Testament times, there was no direct link between God and men - other than the men whom God appointed as links. Those men were God's prophets, God's friends, and God's leaders. For example, Moses inquired of God, and would pass on God's words to the people.

Prophets, those who speak forth God's Words, had to be 100% correct when they shared God's Words with the people. After all, there was no simple way for people to check those words. The only test was to see whether the word came true. If it came true, the prophet was a prophet of God. If not, the prophet was not a prophet of God.

As time progressed, a record grew - both oral and written. As it grew, this record enabled people to double-check prophecies and teachings more easily. This is what we see the Bereans do in Acts 17:11:

(Acts 17:11 NIV) Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Jesus' sacrifice reconciled us to the Father.

(1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV) For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, {6} who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.

The link between God and men is restored, enabling God to sent the Holy Spirit into our hearts:

(Galatians 4:6 NIV) Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, ''Abba, Father.''

Nevertheless, we have a treasure in jars of clay (2 Cor. 4:6-7 ). And as Romans 6, 7 and 8 makes clear, we are still a mixture of flesh and Spirit - water and wine, so to speak.

Thus, Paul - in the midst of instructing the Corinthians on the place, purpose and practice of the spiritual gifts - says:

(1 Corinthians 13:9-12 NIV) For we know in part and we prophesy in part, {10} but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. {11} When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. {12} Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

This is why all prophecy must be tested:

(1 Corinthians 14:29 NIV) Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

Again, the context of this statement is Paul's discussion on the spiritual gifts. He is not talking about the office of ''prophet'' - someone established by God in a position of spiritual authority - but rather about people who use the spiritual gifts (and specifically the gift of prophecy) as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 .

In today's church, however, there are some who see a restoration of the so-called five-fold ministry, and who believe that the church again includes certain people who occupy the office of ''prophet.''

Robert Bowman addresses this unbiblical teaching in his article on the five-fold ministry, discussing apostles and, here, prophets:

Nor are there any prophets in the usual sense, as they were part of the ''foundation'' laid in the first-century church. This is not to deny the continuing validity of the gift of "prophecy," since Paul does refer to prophesying as a basic activity in which all Christians are urged to participate to the extent God gifts them (Rom. 12:6 ; 1 Cor. 11:4-5 ; 12:10 ; 13:2 , 8-9 ; 14:1-6 , 20-33 ; 1 Thess. 5:20 ), and in a general functional sense persons exercising this gift are even called ''prophets'' (1 Cor. 14:32 , 37 ). Yet Paul also speaks of specific persons who occupied an office of ''prophet'' which was second in authority only to apostle (1 Cor. 12:28-29 ). It is this office of ''prophet,'' not all prophecy, which I am arguing passed away around the end of the first century.

I have heard prophecies, words of knowledge and teachings that were 100% correct. I have also heard prophecies, words and teachings that fell anywhere between 0% and 100%.

However, we no longer stone prophets who do not get it all right. For one thing, we no longer have people who operate in the office of ''prophet.''

In addition, we are no longer dependent on what the prophet (teacher, pastor, leader, Bible Answer Man, etc.) says is the Word of God - but rather on what God confirms as His Word.

This confirmation comes in various ways: through Scripture, through listening to the Holy Spirit, and through the instruction of others (which, in turn, is tested.)

But always - without exception - all prophecies, dreams, teachings, and etcetera must be tested by the standard of Scripture:

(Acts 17:11 NIV) Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Note that Paul later reiterated this point in his letter to the Thessalonians:

(1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 NIV) Do not put out the Spirit's fire; {20} do not treat prophecies with contempt. {21} Test everything. Hold on to the good. {22} Avoid every kind of evil.

The fact that we constantly have to test, keeps us dependent on God and His Word, as opposed to on a teacher or movement. Never forget that we are not of Paul or of Apollos - we follow God.

That said, when certain people consistently make erroneous prophecies and/or teach things that militate against the written Word of God, and that cause Christians everywhere to have "checks in their spirits," the church must warn against - and discipline - those teachers. If your baker consistently sells you moldy bread, you naturally stop trusting him, and start buying your bread elsewhere."

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http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f09.html

"It has recently become popular to speak of "the five-fold ministry," a system of church government with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The neo-Pentecostal "Restoration" movement and its offshoot, "kingdom now" teaching, claims that one of the things which God is "restoring" to the church is this five-fold ministry. The sole prooftext used to support this concept is Ephesians 4:11-13 , which states that Christ gave "some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,...until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the full knowledge of the Son of God." The word "until," it is argued, proves that the church today needs apostles and prophets as much as evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, it is the "building up" of the church (v.12) which must continue until the church is mature, not all five of the offices listed in verse 11. This is clear when the whole text is read as follows: "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers; [these offices were given] to equip the saints for the work of service, [which work has as its goal] to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith..." The offices of apostle and prophet would naturally cease in the church once their role in "equipping the saints" was completed; that is, once the New Testament canon was completed.

Some have objected that there is no reason to bracket off the apostles and prophets from the other three offices listed in verse 11. However, in the very same epistle, Paul states that the church has "been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" (Eph. 2:20 ) and that Christ's mystery concerning the church was "revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" (3:5 ). These statements indicate that the role of apostles and prophets was fulfilled in the first century.

The New Testament is particularly clear about the temporary role of the apostles, since they were chosen to give eyewitness testimony of the risen Christ (Acts 1:21-26 ; 5:32 ; Luke 1:1-4 ; 1 Cor. 9:1 ). Paul indicated that he was the last person to see the risen Christ and receive an apostolic commission (1 Cor. 15:8 ). The epistles of 2 Peter and Jude, among the very last New Testament writings to be penned, exhort the readers to avoid false doctrines by recalling the teachings of the apostles (2 Pet. 1:12-15 ; 2:1 ; 3:2 , 14-16 ; Jude 3-4 , 17 ). Peter and Jude did not say, "Listen to the apostles living today," but instead urged believers to "remember what the apostles said."

I am not arguing that only the Twelve and Paul were apostles. Barnabas (Acts 14:14 ), Silas (1 Thess. 2:6 ; cf. 1:1 ), and Andronicus and Junia (Rom. 16:7 ) all were apostles of Christ, and thus were no doubt among the more than 500 witnesses to the Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:6 ). However, none of these persons was chosen as a successor to an earlier apostle (Matthias was Judas's replacement, not his successor, since Judas had forsaken his apostleship, Acts 1:21-26 ).

There are other senses in which the word "apostle" is used in the New Testament. Certain individuals, including Epaphroditus, were "apostles of the churches" (2 Cor. 8:23 ; Phil. 2:25 ). These "apostles" had no authority over the church; they were messengers sent by and subject to their churches. In this latter sense it would be perfectly legitimate to speak of church representatives as "apostles," were it not for the confusion which might result from such usage.

Therefore, in the usual biblical sense of the term, there are no apostles today. Nor are there any prophets in the usual sense, as they were part of the "foundation" laid in the first-century church. This is not to deny the continuing validity of the gift of "prophecy," since Paul does refer to prophesying as a basic activity in which all Christians are urged to participate to the extent God gifts them (Rom. 12:6 ; 1 Cor. 11:4-5 ; 12:10 ; 13:2 , 8-9 ; 14:1-6 , 20-33 ; 1 Thess. 5:20 ), and in a general functional sense persons exercising this gift are even called "prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32 , 37 ). Yet Paul also speaks of specific persons who occupied an office of "prophet" which was second in authority only to apostle (1 Cor. 12:28-29 ). It is this office of "prophet," not all prophecy, which I am arguing passed away around the end of the first century.

Finally, some errors on this matter are worse than others. The loose use of the world "apostle" to refer to missionaries or church planters is not a serious error as long as this usage is sharply distinguished from the concept of an apostle who brings new doctrinal revelations and wields unquestionable authority. Nor is it a grievous error to interpret Ephesians 4:11 to refer to "apostles" in this sense of a church planter. The same would apply to those who hold that Ephesians 4:11 refers to the ongoing charismatic activity of prophesying. I do believe these interpretations are mistaken, but they are not in any way antagonistic to Christian faith.

On the other hand, to interpret Ephesians 4:11 as a call for a restoration of the office of apostle of Christ is not only a mistake in exegesis, it opens the door to heresy. To claim that the church today needs visions and revelations through modern apostles and prophets of Christ is to deny the sufficiency of the Bible (2 Tim. 3:16 ) and to place the church at the mercy of false apostles, the likes of whom the apostle Paul warned us about in no uncertain terms (2 Cor. 11:13-15 ).

The teachers of the "five-fold ministry," in seeking to "restore" a foundation which has never been moved, are actually laying a false foundation which will not support the building up of the body of Christ."

[sagz4Christ]

wow. Where do you get all this information? How do you find out about all these web sites?

This is exactly what I was looking for last night when I posted in the thread about this very subject.

Thanks for the article!

By His Blood;

~Sagz

[IslandRose]

Excellent Article, Calamity!

IR :il:

[BlindSeeker]

[The Journey]

Outstanding!!! And very relevant with some of the recent posts!!!

- Steve