Observer of dreams Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 314 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/08/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2006 I (and I believe the rest of humanity too) Have a desire to catagorize the seemingly chaotic nature of the universe. It's this catagorization that sometimes gets us in trouble. It is my belief that God sees things like this; ABC A being past B being present, and C being future. I think our catagorizations of past present and future are flawed. Reason being that God is not bound by time where as past present and future are. Our perceptions tell us A=B=C. God, in my opinion, sees things as already taken place. To him the past present and future are all one in the same. So when he says "I know you will mow your neighbors lawn 2 years from now!" In part it means he is already there in that point in time where I made the decision to mow my neighbors lawn, and that comes from his omni presence. Time as we know it is a catagorization in and of itself, and the proof is in the pudding. I may ask you where you were ten minutes ago and you can tell me, but it is a little harder for me to ask you that specifically without using time. That all I got to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypc Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I digg what your sayin and agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 963 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/27/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/10/1963 Share Posted May 14, 2006 God IS in control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2006 And that is why the One Perfect Sacrifice is ever before the Father, pleading on our behalf. That is why we can claim the Blood every moment. To the Father it is here, and it is now. That is why we can offer that same sacrifice of Jesus--- through Him, with Him and in Him--- to the glory of God the Father. Praise God for His graciousness to His rebelious children! Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniJ87 Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/30/1987 Share Posted May 14, 2006 The thought of time, and God being in the future, and knowing everything is amazing. Mind boggling. I know that free-will and God's omniscience go together.. but my poor brain is too lowly to comprehend it. Thank you Lord, for doing such amazing things for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted May 14, 2006 This is a significant topic that is debated in academic circles. There are A and B theories of time. Your view is a platonic/Augustinian, philisophical view called 'eternal now'. God is timeless (whatever that means). In fact, a personal being must experience time if He is to think, act, and feel. Time is simply a measure of duration, sequence, succession. It should not be confused with a place or space. God knows the past and present exhaustively. He correctly knows the future as possible, not actual/certain until it becomes real. The future is not there yet, so God cannot know it in the same way as the fixed past. A flawed view of eternity (timelessness vs endless time) leads to wrong conclusions about omniscience. Open Theism is an attempt to return to biblical understanding on these issues, since some of our traditional views have been unduly influenced by pagan philosophy. This IVP book is helpful for looking at the complexity of this issue. I concur with Wolterstorff: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0830815511...523#reader-link (click next page for contents) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer of dreams Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 314 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/08/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) God knows the past and present exhaustively. He correctly knows the future as possible, not actual/certain until it becomes real. The future is not there yet, so God cannot know it in the same way as the fixed past. Though God may not know the future the same way he knows the past he does know all possibilities and which paths are more likly to be taken than others. I also believe that we can "remember" the future in a sense. Some call it forsight, others call it predicting, but I believe that Jesus knows the future so well it is as if he has already lived it. He indeed asks us to imitate him, and to be like him means to reach his level of enlightenment (amoung many other things) and the understanding that would naturally follow. Furthermore if God was uncertain about the future it would contradict his nature deaming him fallible. A second point is that if God knew the future as uncertain and changeable he would not have talked to his chosen people in such a matter-of-fact way countless times. My belief on time is this, and it's as specific as I can make it, Imagine all of humanity and the earth as a turtle. Now imagine God is the light from a spotlight. God is traveling so fast that he can see up the road indefinatly, but we as lowly turtles are stuck to the ground ever wondering what is ten feet in front of us. One day the spotlight talks to us and tells us everything we need to know about the roads up ahead, and our reactions are not good, neither are they bad. They are merely the kind of reactions one might expect from a turtle. "Ever wonder what it would be like talking to a man as God? Well try talking to a cockroach sometime and you will find out." Edited May 14, 2006 by Observer of dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,036 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2006 I (and I believe the rest of humanity too) Have a desire to catagorize the seemingly chaotic nature of the universe. It's this catagorization that sometimes gets us in trouble. It is my belief that God sees things like this; ABC A being past B being present, and C being future. I think our catagorizations of past present and future are flawed. Reason being that God is not bound by time where as past present and future are. Our perceptions tell us A=B=C. God, in my opinion, sees things as already taken place. To him the past present and future are all one in the same. So when he says "I know you will mow your neighbors lawn 2 years from now!" In part it means he is already there in that point in time where I made the decision to mow my neighbors lawn, and that comes from his omni presence. Time as we know it is a catagorization in and of itself, and the proof is in the pudding. I may ask you where you were ten minutes ago and you can tell me, but it is a little harder for me to ask you that specifically without using time. That all I got to say Agreed . . . I say this way, God is everywhere all through time at the same time . . . because I belive linear time was created for the benefit of finite creatures . . . . Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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