Doing or being?

[David from New Bern]

This sounds like a simple question, but you will not find a more profound and defining question in the Christian faith. As you know the book of James discusses the tension between faith and works, but I chose different words to hopefully open our minds to the spiritual tension of the argument. Which is more important?...Doing or being?

[rfw]

The Answer is ....... (drumrollllll) YES!

You cannot Do effectively for eternity until you ARE! If you are not in Christ, then "All our righteous acts are filthy rags". At the same time "we are His workmanship, created for good works in Christ Jesus, that we should walk in them".

In other words, it is Both/And. After becoming a New Creature in Christ, it is vital for us to act like it by doing what Jesus would do.

[thechild]

what you do helps to create who you are. you dont have to feel like obeying in order to choose to obey. but once you have obeyed, new understanding can be attained through the perspective of the new experience. the doing must come first, then the understanding. that is how the lord teaches. it is foolproof. it is cheatproof. it is perfect. it requires a deliberate choice which is never lost on the lord, regardless of what anyone else knows or thinks. in fact, we are told to do certain things in secret to increase our faith - praying in secret and giving in secret. try it, youll like it.

[ElijahSK]

I am first brought to ask are these two different? Can you have faith without works? No, it is dead. Can you have works without faith? No, though you work for the rest of your life it will only be filthy rags to God.

God is light. If we say we have fellowship with the light, yet walk in darkness, we lie and don't know the truth. If we hold the truth in unrighteousness the wrath of God will be revealed against us.

James makes the point that faith that is not effectual faith is no faith at all. It's dead. You'll notice that James uses the same person as an example as Paul did for his example on faith apart from works. Abraham was justified by faith apart from his works as it is writen, Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. James talks about Abraham's work in offering up Isaac. Hebrews 11 says that by faith Abraham offered up Isaac, and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Of whom it was said in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Accounting that God was able to raise him up even from the dead, from whence he had also received him in a figure.

Let me give you some background. You see God promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations and in his seed would all the nations be blessed. After God made the promise He let Abraham wait for many years, perfecting his faith by patience. Abraham and Sarah finally decided many God didn't mean by Sarah and that Abraham should know His bondwoman Hagar. Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise with his own flesh. Then God came to him once again and told him that Ishmael would not be the promised seed. God would not use the flesh to bring about the promise. God told him it would be by Sarah. God then waited a few more years. Abraham then believed God. He didn't consider his own body or the body of his wife. Though they both be as good as dead, Abraham and Sarah judged that God, who had promised, would be faithful. They then did not try to accomplish in their own fleshy strivings, but they waiting on God to fulfill His promise. Then Isaac came. Ishmael lusted against Isaac because he say the love his father had for him. Isaac represents the promise and the spirit. Ishmael the flesh. Wherefore God told Abraham that He must send away Hagar and Ishmael. You see when you have the promise and the spirit you must send away the flesh. You become dead to it, dead as in if I stop smoking cigarettes I'm dead to them. I have no more dealings with them. Someone talks about them, and I'm immune to the conversation because I will have nothing to do with them any longer. So Abraham became dead to Ishmael.

God had already taught Abraham that He would fulfill His own promises and that Abraham in his flesh couldn't perform that which God had promised. Which lead taught Abraham that God would have to accomplish it in him, all he had to do was believe God and He'd take care of the rest. So when God told Abraham go sacrifice Isaac, the promised child, the one in whom his seed should be called. Abraham believed God, and straightway went. He traveled with a group of people. When finally they made it to the hill where he would sacrifice Isaac, Abraham told those that were walking with him, stay here Isaac and I will return. You see, Abraham believed God and fully believed he was going to go sacrifice Isaac here. But he believed God that in Isaac his seed should be called. Since he knew God would be faithful, he was getting ready for a miracluous sight. He though he was about to get to see God's hand at work before his very eyes. He thought he was in for an adventure. You see he thought, that he would go up there, sacrifice Isaac, then turn to God and say alright God I sacrificed him... now raise him from the dead. Do you see his faith? He knew what God said before. He knew what God said right then. He didn't doubt the one before. He didn't doubt the word right then. Instead he worked out logically how they both could be accomplished. He didn't stagger at the promises through unbelief. He was strong in faith, giving glory to God. He was fully persuaded thatwhat God had promised, He was able also to perform. So Abraham pulled back the knife, and God stopped him. Abraham had faith in God's promises. Because He believed God, his works followed. If you believe something, your works will not contradict it. If I believe I'm allergic to apples and will die if I eat one and that I should not bring death upon myself, you will not see me walking around eating apples. My belief dictates my works. If you see me eating an apple, that belief I held is dead.

So how does this apply to us? 2 chapters after Paul talks about Abraham believing God and it being counted unto Him for righteousness and him not staggering at the promse, Paul tells us the promises of God concerning us. All of Romans 6-8 is about God's promise to us about freedom from sin. God tells us by Paul that our old man (the flesh, or sinful nature) is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed that henceforth we should not serve sin. If you believe that will you keep sinning? How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? If you believe it, you'll live it also. You're fight will not be a fight to perform in your flesh, it will be a fight of faith to maintain your belief and trust in the gospel of Christ.

You see Abraham considered not his own body, nor the deadness of Sarah's womb. And when God tells you you are dead to sin, you should not consider your body and how much you crave sin everyday. You should say, God said it it is true. Then believing it is true, that will dictate your actions from that point on. Should I go to the strip club tonight? Nah, I'm dead to that now. Should I eat so much food that I can't move? Nah, I'm dead to gluttony. Should I look at pornagraphy on the web? Nah, I'm dead to lust.

You see the carnal mind is emnity toward God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be (which Paul shows in Romans 7). To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritally minded is life and peace. Those that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but those that are after the Spirit mind the things of the Spirit. If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Christians are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. The battle is won. The struggle against sin is over. Only someone who is mindful of the flesh would tell you anything else. Because all of the word of God which is inspired by the Spirit says your free, the battle is over, your flesh is dead. Only if you consider your own carnal body, will you come up with something else. And then there is no way for you to be subject to the law of God. You will will to do right, but you will not be able to perform. You will will to not do what is wrong, but you will not be able to keep yourself from it.

But the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ will set you free from that law of sin and death which wages war in your members. To God be all glory, honor, and praise for revealing the righteousness of God in us. All boasting is in Him, in the work He performs in us by His word which is light, life, and truth.

Thank the Lord for He is good. He gives graces when it becomes most needful. He never lets us be tempted above that which we are able to endure. All we must to when those trials get hard is turn to God, trust on His grace, and rejoice that we dead to it and alive to Him receiving the crown of life which He has promised to those that love Him.

So to answer your question. Be, and then you won't be able to help but do.

[traveller]

You can do without the be, but you can't be without the do.

[tah]

I may not always be able to do but I am always be able to be.....

so in that respect being would be the most important...

[Christ's Free Servant]

You can do without the be, but you can't be without the do.

Precisely!!

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

I am a human being. Not just a human doing.

However, LOVE is not just a feeling, it is an ACTION.

Love is not God. But, God is love.

So, let us BE CHRISTIANS and BE LOVING and BE PEACEFUL, working towards love, peace and Christs Kingdom, knowing that first HE loved us.

Not by men nor might. But, by My Spirit I shall accomplish these things, says the Lord.

Also, we are made in Gods Image, HE is The I AM. Not called The I Do... Even though He does good things.

So we are. But, we do good because we want to.

We are human beings.

BE still and know that I Am God!!

[Pilgrim7]

Jesus said make the tree good, that would be being, and the fruit would be good, that would be doing. There is no conflict between faith and works. Faith always works by love, for the believer is created unto good works. Faith always works. Where there is faith without works there is dead faith and where there is works without faith, there is dead works.

For those who believe the scriptures, Jesus said:

Mt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (does anybody believe the Savior here)7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Here Jesus tells us that a good tree, true believer, will do the will of the father)

Mt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree (believer) is known by his]fruit.

These are not hard to understand. They may be hard to receive, but they are the words of the Savior.

God Bless,

Dennis

[thechild]

good post, pilgrim7. may i add a final reminder from the sunday school song i sang as a child:

matt 7

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.