rapture

[whirlwind]

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; AND LO, I AM WITH YOU ALWAY, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. AMEN.

We will be here. Prepare for tribulation saints.

So be it as it is written!! Amen!

What a terrific post........"as it is written. Amen !"

.........Whirlwind

[irishcowboy]

if we really want to, we can say that the "last days" are not until after the 1000 year rule of Christ on this earth, for it is not until after that, that the New Jerusalem is set upon this earth, for it is not until then that we see the Great White Throne Judgment

for all those that are not of Christ will be sent to their eternity separated from Christ.....

(the Rapture is the First Resurection, of all the saints, those that are dead, and those that are yet alive and in Christ)

a question....

if the rapture happens after the tribulation, why would we be raptured up, only to come right back down for the battle of Armagedon?????

like i said before, i do not know all the answers......

I do know this, the tribulation is not going to be a time to be trying to start living for Christ.... if a person can not live their life for Him now when it is fairly easy, especially in the USA, then how is that person going to be able to live for Christ, change their ways when the Holy Spirit has been removed from the earth and the entire earth becomes a living hell?????

people don't have time for Him now, will surely not have much more time for Him then....

we do not go into a war zone with out going through basic training, learning how to use our weapons issued us..... those going into the tribulation with out first having Christ, would be like some one being given an M-14, and several magazines and sent to the front line with out any further information or training.... first, they do not know how to use the M-14, or how to load it, or even how to clean it or field strip it in the day light, much less in the dark when it would be more imparitive to be able to strip it down and clean it or repair it (i have been known to field strip it in 30 seconds and have it locked and loaded 30 seconds later.....IN THE DARK).......

a person having the Bible, and calling them selves a Christian, but not knowing how to use the information against the enemy is as dangerous to the enemy as a recruit with out a days training on the front lines.....

v.r.

mike

[eric]

Great post, Toni.If God had wanted us to believe that believers were to be whisked away before the tribulation, He wouldn't have bothered warning us to be prepared as often as He did. How and why would He differenciate between those who have just been born again and those who have been true believers for most of their lives.

Teaching that new christians won't be on earth during the trib, is false teaching and planting false hopes. There are no gray areas in the bible. How many times does Jesus have to say " I will raise them up on the last day......and the last day is not 3 and1/2 yrs or seven years before He comes for His believers.

[Christian]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, the voice of reason and scriptural fact is so nice to hear.

Thank You ToniR, onwingsaseagles, and eric

There's nothing like letting the Bible interpret the Bible for the answers to our questions.

[irishcowboy]

if the rapture happens after the tribulation, why would we be raptured up, only to come right back down for the battle of Armagedon?????

This is another pre-tribulation rapture theory, again with no scripture to back it up. It is clear from scripture that the catching away of the saints, in plain words, is at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, after the righteous dead in Christ rise first no ifs, ands or buts. There will be lots going on on the earth during the great tribulation, and multitudes will be brought to salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the present day church of Christ will be a major part of this end time harvest, and need to prepare.

I asked a question, did not give a theory......

like i said before, i do not know all the answers......

None of us has all the answers, friend.

there are to be 144,000 who are they, and what are they doing.....

I am asking questions, not trying to change your way of thinking..... yet, it seems that people get on the defensive when they start talking about the rapture and end times..... and nothing is gained from it.....

the phrase, Some of this generation, will not taste death, could mean either way.... some believe it means they will not taste death others believe it means they will survive the tribulation....

i still do not see how a person that does not have Christ will make it through other then with extremely great difficulty.....

to share a vision i was given would only come upon ridicule and attack, but will share it anyways.... (i am not a prophet, other then being a descendant of a proffit (my grandfathers sir name)...

standing in a church sanctuary (divided into three sections) over looking a packed house (representing those that claim to be Christian), one section was there with the three and then it was gone..... the second section claimed this could not be the rapture for if it was, they would have also been taken for they had been followers, they had reaching the word of God, they had been healing the sick, they had been casting out demons, they had been raising the dead in Jesus name....

they had done this, they had done that, they had done other..... all in the name of Jesus.... ( this is not a bout numbers, but about parts, much like with Christ on the Cross, one righteous, and two unrighteous.... one of the unrighteous was given entry into paradise the other met with eternity in the lake of fire, separated from God......

the last section looked around and realized they had goofed, they repented and started doing things for Christ from their heart, soul and mind........ and they witness the Gospel of Jesus Christ, giving of their lives for the Kingdom.

the understanding of this vision came with the vision.... this did not give a time frame, but gave strength to the scripture that not all that are calling themselves Christians will in fact be raptured up, some will be told to depart.....

again, not eveyone knows what will happen or how it will happen, for there was too much information that was not given to us.....

we were given warnings about what will happen so that we can share with those that do not know Christ.....

there information that is not meant for the gentile, but for the Jew..... and we are suppose to be sharing it with all.... gentile and Jew......

reading an Israeli news paper, you would be surprised as to what is going on.... so much happening and about 99% of it we never hear..... not in the USA.....

did you know they have uncovered some of the walls of the temple? while excavating ground for the Dome?

did you know there are food stores in the mountains (cliff dwelling like places)

did you know that there is a process in the works to split Jerusalem 50 / 50 with the P.A. ????

did you know that work is in progress to give up part or all of Goulen Heights?????

did you know

mike

[damo1]

damo1

after going threw this topic and what toni r had to say i would have to agree with toni r on this as we also get this group hear wear i live doing the same thing its a false teaching and its a dangerous teaching for any one to be involved in i love challanging this group as the leader has not gone threw bible collage but feels he is a pastor and has know backed of due to the heat he got not just from me but sevral others he also has stopped booking out the town hall and putting silly litlle adds threw the free local paper we get in the farming comunity i live in

i go by what it states in Jude this book is spot on though i feel more could have been added in jude and this puzzles me why its only a few pages

Jude 1 old and new apostate

5 but i want to remind you though you once knew this that this that the lord having saved the people out of the land of Eygpt afterward destroyed who did not belive

6 and the angels who did not keep their proper domain but left their own abode he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

7 as sodom and gomorah and the citys around them in a similar manner to these having given them selves over to sexual imorality and gone after strange flesh are set for as an example suffering the vengance of eternal hell

8 like wise also these dreamer who defile the flesh reject athority and speak evil of dignitaries

9 yet michael the arch angel in contending with the devil when he disputed about the body of moses dasred not bring against him a reviling acusation but said the lord rebuke you

10 but these speak evil of whatever they do not know and what ever they know naturaly like brute beasts in these things they corupt them selves

11 woe to them for they have gone in the way of cain have run greedily in the error of balam for profit and perished in the rebllion of the korah

i feel that this is a bigotary teaching to split the church and to split us i feel this is just wasting peoples time it is against my principals to be devided like this among my brothers and my sisters in the lord as this is all this false teaching on rapture does

in 1 john 2- 18 john describes the times in which he wrote as the last hour giving evidance that he lived in immidaiate intacipation of christs second comming just as have every christians in every generation john i feel saw his era

i feel this is not an unhealthy attitude our lord jesus expects of those that say we are his read mattew 25 verse 1 at that time the kingdom of heaven wil be compared to the ten bride maids who took their oil lamps and went out to meet the groom 2 timothy 4 verse 8 the victorys crown of righteousness is now weighting for me which the lord the righteous judge wil give to me on that day and not only to me but also to all who eagerly weight for his appearing

my pastor does not belive in teaching this to our members as he is like me he feels teaching this today in the body of christ wil just bring in confusion and i am glad that i have an honest pastor who is not wiling to alow him self to go on this path like some hear have and alow them selves to become bigots when it comes to topics likes this

even thoug we are free to expres our selves like this i my self to do not alow my self to be manipulated like this

i feel this is what is going to happen to those that do not give their lives over to god in the scriptures i have given from jude the book of jude is a good book to get your head around as this is wear i get my food for my spirit not from what one mear man or person thinks they have to say on this

i also am strong in my own walk and i am grounded in gods word so i do not just speak from the head whne it comes to topics like this the bible wil not lead you down a wrong path

jude 7 new spirit filled life bible

20 but you beloved building your selves up on your most holy faith praying in the holy spirit

21 keeping your selves in the love of god looking for the mercy of our lord jesus christ unto eternal life

this is what i base my facts on and i stick by what these verse in jude 7 verse 21 22 say

i hope this rubish stops being taught in gods house as its just wasting peoples time when we could be doing better things and that is being jesus to the lost and those around us instead of trying to work this out rapture when

god bless from damo

[Guest 455]

with all the stuff going on right now

i was wondering when u think the rapture will happen?

i just want to hear people's opinions on this

I don't think the date is for us to give according to Gods word, but I am pursuaded to think anytime, this is a topic I have questions about. Maybe you can help me in helping me understand when this will take place before the seven year period of wrath or after? 455

Edited November 14, 2007 by 455

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Why do we assume that the Great Tribulation period and it's entire length is indeed God's Wrath being poured out?

When God speaks about His Wrath being poured out He often speaks of it as a Day.

Has anyone given this serious consideration?

There is a significance to this and I am stirring the discussion a little by asking.

Peace,

Dave

[damo1]

Grace to you,

Why do we assume that the Great Tribulation period and it's entire length is indeed God's Wrath being poured out?

When God speaks about His Wrath being poured out He often speaks of it as a Day.

Has anyone given this serious consideration?

There is a significance to this and I am stirring the discussion a little by asking.

Peace,

Dave

An excellent point to bring up, Dave!! The tribulation period and the great tribulation period do not constitute God's wrath, as your pre-tribulation promoters peddle. This is another false doctrine. God's wrath does not come until the Day of the Lord, which is at the very end of the great tribulation period around the time of the 6th seal. I did a search of all of the scriptues that denote the Day of the Lord, and below they are listed. This is the time God's wrath is poured out upon the wicked, as I posted in my post here #146. This is the wrath God's people are delivered from, and this is what is meant when it is said, "God has not appointed us unto wrath." In otherwords, the Day of the Lord does not = the tribulation period or great tribulation. They are two separate and distinct times.

Joel 2:31

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,

before the great and the terrible Day of the Lord come.

Joel 3:14

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision:

for the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5:18

Woe unto you that desire the Day of the Lord!

To what end is it for you?

The Day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.

Amos 5:20

Shall not the Day of the Lord be darkness, and not light?

Even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Obadiah 1:15

For the Day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen:

as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee:

thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

Zephaniah 1:7

Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God:

for the Day of the Lord is at hand:

for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice,

he hath bid his guests.

Zephaniah 1:8

And it shall come to pass in the day of the Lord's sacrifice,

that I will punish the princes, and the king's children,

and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

Zep 1:14

The great Day of the Lord is near, it is near,

and hasteth greatly,

even the voice of the Day of the Lord:

the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zep 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them

in the day of the Lord's wrath;

but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy:

for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Zephaniah 2:2

Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff,

before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you,

before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.

Zephaniah 2:3

Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth,

which have wrought his judgment;

seek righteousness, seek meekness:

it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

Zechariah 14:1

Behold, the Day of the Lord cometh,

and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Malachi 4:5

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet

before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the Lord:

Acts 2:20

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,

before that great and notable Day of the Lord come:

1Colossians 5:5

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,

that the spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus.

2Colossians 1:14

As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing,

even as ye also are ours in the Day of the Lord Jesus.

1Thessalonians 5:2

For yourselves know perfectly

that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

1 Now we beseech you, brethren,

by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,

and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,

neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,

as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means:

for that day shall not come,

except there come a falling away first,

and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,

or that is worshipped;

so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,

shewing himself that he is God.

Philippians 1:10

That ye may approve things that are excellent;

that ye may be sincere and without offence

till the day of Christ;

Philippians 2:16

Holding forth the word of life;

that I may rejoice in the day of Christ,

that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

2Peter 3:10

But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,

and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,

the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

All across America, evangelicals are being taught that the Day of the Lord is the tribulation and the great tribulation. by your pre-tribulation promoters and nothing can be further from the truth. The Scriptures say nothing of the sort. The Day of the Lord opens with the wrath of God. God's wrath comes at the "last day". The final seven years of this age is Daniel's 70th 'week', or 'seven'. The last half of the week includes the great tribulation, and the scriptures say that during this tribulation, the "man of sin", the "beast" or "antichrist arises." One of his purposes will be to silence the witness of Christians as we give testimony of Jesus Christ, the true Messiah who will be coming to destroy the false messiah and his false prophet.

All of the great tribulation anger and wrath is from man. The heavens have not opened yet. Not one bit of this persecution is from God. The persecution of Christians is not God's wrath, but man's wrath.

damo1

hay Toni R

this is what i have been looking into and know has been able to say it as you or as dave and i am great ful for the advice posted in this topic and i have jotted some things down that you pointed out and what dave has said as well on this this is al right in what you say and what dave has said and i am glad we have some honest men that are wiling to back what they say with scripture instead of just speaking from the head

my pastor hear does not preach on this and i know sevral other pastors that also do not do this with in their churches as al this does is bring in confusion

great read i enjoyed it thank you very much

from your brother in the lord damien

[Christian]

All of the great tribulation anger and wrath is from man. The heavens have not opened yet. Not one bit of this persecution is from God. The persecution of Christians is not God's wrath, but man's wrath.