USA in prophecy

[Ovedya]

mrcorey:

"God is only in the present tense."

Your question about prophecy and USA is exactly what God Almighty wants you to be thinking about!

The United States was first introduced in Revelation 11.12-15.

The Two Witnesses up to Heaven [Government] was the movement in the United States to place the Bible [Two Witnesses] back in charge of the congregations with autonomy.

Alexander Campbell, a publisher, asked for prayers for the Fall of Babylon [1 Day: '59 - '60; and 1 Hour: Sept 20, 1870]. The Fall of Babylon was "the mystery of the God would be finished" (Rev 10.7, 11.15).

Then the US promoted the Millennium (Rev 14.6-7; Rev 20.1-7) which was 1859-1959.

Then "the bowl of the wrath of the God on the earth" (Rev 16.2) was the American Revolution.

Then the "murder of the Millennium" (Rev 20.7-8) was in the US.

In AD 2004, the Beast into lake of fire began (Rev 20.10). And it will continue 11 years (2015), as it did the first time (Rev 19.20; 1859-1870). This was front page news all year long. God is not working in secret. [in my youth, men believed these facts.]

sidwms

I take back what I said before. THIS is the worst interpretation of Revelation I have ever seen.

sw

Ditto!

[butterfly]

mrcorey:

"God is only in the present tense."

Your question about prophecy and USA is exactly what God Almighty wants you to be thinking about!

The United States was first introduced in Revelation 11.12-15.

The Two Witnesses up to Heaven [Government] was the movement in the United States to place the Bible [Two Witnesses] back in charge of the congregations with autonomy.

Alexander Campbell, a publisher, asked for prayers for the Fall of Babylon [1 Day: '59 - '60; and 1 Hour: Sept 20, 1870]. The Fall of Babylon was "the mystery of the God would be finished" (Rev 10.7, 11.15).

Then the US promoted the Millennium (Rev 14.6-7; Rev 20.1-7) which was 1859-1959.

Then "the bowl of the wrath of the God on the earth" (Rev 16.2) was the American Revolution.

Then the "murder of the Millennium" (Rev 20.7-8) was in the US.

In AD 2004, the Beast into lake of fire began (Rev 20.10). And it will continue 11 years (2015), as it did the first time (Rev 19.20; 1859-1870). This was front page news all year long. God is not working in secret. [in my youth, men believed these facts.]

sidwms

I take back what I said before. THIS is the worst interpretation of Revelation I have ever seen.

sw

Matthew 7:16

[st. Worm]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

[sweetycakes]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

Ok, I seemed to have lost the plot here...

I will just creep back into obscurity, ok?

[st. Worm]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

Ok, I seemed to have lost the plot here...

I will just creep back into obscurity, ok?

I have no problem discussing particular issues if you want just not the nutty conspiracy charges.

sw

[sweetycakes]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

Ok, I seemed to have lost the plot here...

I will just creep back into obscurity, ok?

I have no problem discussing particular issues if you want just not the nutty conspiracy charges.

sw

Ok, SW, give me all you know

Your friend in Christ

[st. Worm]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

Ok, I seemed to have lost the plot here...

I will just creep back into obscurity, ok?

I have no problem discussing particular issues if you want just not the nutty conspiracy charges.

sw

Ok, SW, give me all you know

Your friend in Christ

Well you have to ask a question first!

sw

[sweetycakes]

Ok, as an Englishman, I thought I'd stick my oar in here.

Personally, having tried to figure out where both America and Britain fit into prophecy for many years, I have been unable to.

Muslims call America the 'great satan', probably because of it's wealth, commerce, etc. Now, I have mixed feelings about this. Being more ready to side with the Americans ( I hate Islam, as I've stated before),...yet, though Bush and Blair 'claim' to be Christians...are they really? I don't know. I am inclined, though, to beware of claims of Christianity, when I see the supposed involvement of Bush in the 'skull and bones' society.

Is there are truth in this, or are they merely 'alarmist'?

In my view, the jury is still out on this one, since anybody who can refute these claims are able to do so, should they wish. Where are the naysayers?

Personally, I am doubtful about the claims of any world leader, be they from whatever country, including my own (England).

Nevertheless, because of my hatred of Islam and all it stands for, and my support for Israel, I am more inclined to side with America, the supporter of Israel, at least for the moment, until maybe further revelations come to light.

But, seriously, what about the new world order, supported by Bush? I know I am treading on dangerous ground here, because I had a thread deleted just the other day about global conspiracies.

I really don't know, in all honesty. I am still trying to learn. I know the American people are a patriotic people. I don't wish to offend any sensibilities, but could someone please enlighten me with a balanced view?

You won't find the US or GB in the Bible.

Also, its irrelevent if Bush and Blair are Christians. What's important is that they act to protect their countries in an aggressive way against Islamic terror. Too bad more Western leaders don't have their backbone.

sw

But you didn't address my concerns, SW, which are not merely mine, but those of an increasing number. Are Bush and Blair involved in some nefarious practice to impose a world government upon us all?

There is no basis for this at all. Once again you are listening to the conspiracy theory nut jobs rather than looking at things as they are.

sw

All I'm saying, SW, is that there is a lot of stuff out there that would seem to indicate things are not as they seem. Maybe a cursory look at these things would not harm us, but may (and I say MAY) enlighten us to some of the things we are not currently aware of. I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if we have confidence in our leaders and ourselves, we have nothing to fear.

Any scrutiny of our belief systems should not inflame us, I believe. Jesus was not afraid of scrutiny. He was well prepared to deal with it. But we have to be sure that we KNOW what we know.

Don't get me wrong, but I am of the opinion that since suspicion has been levelled at us, we should be prepared to answer these claims. We should be transparent. Whether rightly or wrongly. If we are right, the truth will come out in the wash. Similarly, if we have been missing something, that will also come out, and we would be made to look like fools.

I myself don't know. But I believe we should answer these claims. Or are you of a different opinion?

Some claims are so ridiculous that they cannot really be addressed so its better to ignore them. For example the one world government and trilateral commission and other conspiracy claims can be made by anyone but how do you disprove them? If I say you were brought here by aliens in a UFO how can you disprove that? This is how the conspiracy people survive.

sw

Ok, I seemed to have lost the plot here...

I will just creep back into obscurity, ok?

I have no problem discussing particular issues if you want just not the nutty conspiracy charges.

sw

Ok, SW, give me all you know

Your friend in Christ

Well you have to ask a question first!

sw

OK, StWorm, first of all, let me say that I am not willing to get myself involved in a heated debate with you. We are all true believers in Christ - if not, then you or I should leave.

But, as I said before, if a doubt is cast upon the validity of any claim, we should not just shirk the issue and claim ignorance. As I also said, I am not anti american or anti british, but I think that, for all concerned, these issues need to be addressed before all our minds can be put to rest. Is president Bush involved with the skull and bones society?

If so, how should that impact upon our view of him as a Christian and a world leader?

If not, then please refute these claims with supporting evidence.

[st. Worm]

OK, StWorm, first of all, let me say that I am not willing to get myself involved in a heated debate with you. We are all true believers in Christ - if not, then you or I should leave.

But, as I said before, if a doubt is cast upon the validity of any claim, we should not just shirk the issue and claim ignorance. As I also said, I am not anti american or anti british, but I think that, for all concerned, these issues need to be addressed before all our minds can be put to rest. Is president Bush involved with the skull and bones society?

If so, how should that impact upon our view of him as a Christian and a world leader?

If not, then please refute these claims with supporting evidence.

Remember I said no conspiracy nutter stuff but that is exactly where you are going. Both Bush and John Kerry were Skull and Bones members in college. So what? Please tell me what policies of the President you think have been effected by that membership? Its basically a fraternity. You realize if you do this stuff the thread will be locked soon.

sw

[sweetycakes]

Yes, I agree that it would probably be locked soon, SW

Does that answer the question, though?

Why is it that you seem to be so distant and defensive? I am not your enemy. I am a Christian. If you are truly willing to involve yourself in a debate I will be more than happy to hear you, and respond.

I got such a response on an atheist forum, I don't expect to get the same response on a Christian forum. I am NOT an enemy of the US, or Britain, or anyone else. How many more times to I have to say it?

All I am looking for is reasoned argument for people believing what they believe.