Mark of the Beast

[kenod]

I know there will be a few different ideas on what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and probably there have been discussions on this subject in this forum before.

However, I would like to see what others think, and put forward a few ideas of my own.

OK, so we can't all be right, but perhaps if we keep in mind the things that are said, we may more easily recognize exactly what the "mark" is when it comes to pass ... if it hasn't already!

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

The Bible begins with deception by a beast (Gen3:1), and it ends the same way. Beneath all the symbolism, it is the same beast:

Rev 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which

deceiveth the whole world

: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

****************************************

I put "of" in your title for you...

Edited December 19, 2006 by refugepsa91

[Guest man]

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

My thought's on this is that when all of this starts to take place, people will actually believe they are worshipping Christ.

I've harped on this topic many times on these boards and never got much of a response, but I truly believe that image we all know of as Christ has something to do with those "great signs and wonders" mentioned in Matt. 24:24. Those signs are going to be so convincing that it's going to make people stop and think. Unless one is truly rooted in the Word, they are going to follow this thing that calls himself Christ.

2 Thess. 2:4 tells us the "man of sin" not only says he is God but shows that he is.

The stage is being set for this final showdown. Idol worship is running rampant through the church today and no one seems to notice. I don't understand that. And it's not just one or two denominations that are doing this, it's all of them.

Even non-believers can tell you what Christ looks like.

The "mark of the beast" is the number of a man. I haven't quite figured that one out yet, but it'll come.

Good topic.....just hope it doesn't get shut down.

[sweetycakes]

I know there will be a few different ideas on what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and probably there have been discussions on this subject in this forum before.

However, I would like to see what others think, and put forward a few ideas of my own.

OK, so we can't all be right, but perhaps if we keep in mind the things that are said, we may more easily recognize exactly what the "mark" is when it comes to pass ... if it hasn't already!

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

The Bible begins with deception by a beast (Gen3:1), and it ends the same way. Beneath all the symbolism, it is the same beast:

Rev 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which

deceiveth the whole world

: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

PS ... my apologies to anyone named Mark ... I goofed in the title and omitted "of"

Personally, I believe it COULD be - not necessarily will be, but could be - the RFID microchip implant, since that seems to come closest to resembling what is described in the bible about everybody having some kind of mark to buy or sell.

The number of the beast is obviously 666

The name?....Well.....I think it could be Mark

Nice picture, btw

[kenod]

My thought's on this is that when all of this starts to take place, people will actually believe they are worshipping Christ.

I've harped on this topic many times on these boards and never got much of a response, but I truly believe that image we all know of as Christ has something to do with those "great signs and wonders" mentioned in Matt. 24:24. Those signs are going to be so convincing that it's going to make people stop and think. Unless one is truly rooted in the Word, they are going to follow this thing that calls himself Christ.

2 Thess. 2:4 tells us the "man of sin" not only says he is God but shows that he is.

The stage is being set for this final showdown. Idol worship is running rampant through the church today and no one seems to notice. I don't understand that. And it's not just one or two denominations that are doing this, it's all of them.

Even non-believers can tell you what Christ looks like.

The "mark of the beast" is the number of a man. I haven't quite figured that one out yet, but it'll come.

Good topic.....just hope it doesn't get shut down.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

One understanding of this verse is that it happened in 1945.

Personally, I think the conflict is between "churchianity" and Christianity. No matter what church you go to (even mine) you will find people who are not born again by the Spirit of God. It is not my place to judge individuals, but it is apparent in the general trend.

Some Christians are already being forced to come out (Rev 18:4). I saw on tonight's news that some Episcopalian congregations have split from their denomination over the ordination of homosexual clergy, the role of women, and the absolute authority of the Scriptures. When our allegiance to a church denomination supersedes our allegiance to Christ, I believe we take the mark of the beast.

[kenod]

Personally, I believe it COULD be - not necessarily will be, but could be - the RFID microchip implant, since that seems to come closest to resembling what is described in the bible about everybody having some kind of mark to buy or sell.

The number of the beast is obviously 666

We have to ask why God would punish those who received a microchip implant just so they could feed their families:

Rev 14:9-11

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand

,

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,

who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

.

It seems that "worship" is involved ... worship of the beast and/or his image. We worship anything that we put in God's place. The mark is in the forehead (mind?) and in the hand (doing his will?). Remember that the "right hand" in the Bible is very symbolic.

We know that the "man of sin" is associated with the "temple of God". Some take this to be a reconstructed Jewish temple, but I think it is more likely this:

2Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So, as I see it, adherence to a belief that is not in accordance to God's Word - taking the word of man instead of what the Bible says - is the mark of the beast.

When the Bible says: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins", I believe we are being told to come out of "churchianity" and into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That does not mean we stop going to church, but we do not put church membership in the place of being born again by the Holy Spirit, for this will bring "the wine of the wrath of God".

God bless

Ken

Edited December 19, 2006 by kenod

[kenod]

THE BEAST

1. He is a man (Rev 13:18).

2. He has a throne and great authority (Rev 13:2)

3. His position has a continuing succession (Rev 17:8 -

[sweetycakes]

I still feel it is also likely to entail a 'physical' mark...like the bible says....for buying and selling.

Seems funny to me, since most everybody seems to think we live in the 'end times' right now - how there is also this mechanism coming into place (big brother, the RFID implant, etc) - also at this very time.

Don't you think the two could be connected?

You said:

"We have to ask why God would punish those who received a microchip implant just so they could feed their families"

Well, I have to admit here that I do look at some of the conspiracy sites. I like to get a perspective from as many different angles as I can. And there are a very great many Christians out there who DO think the implant could be the mark.

For one thing, what about the 'grievous sore' that will accompany the mark? Possibly bodily rejection of the implant, or radiation of some kind?

As for worshipping the beast - do you remember all the hype about the so-called 'Project Blue Beam' that was being bandied about a number of years ago, whereby satellites where supposed to superimpose an 'image' of Christ appearing in the clouds?

And there is rumour that the implanted chips, as well as 'giving out' information (ID, and the like), could also be used to 'receive' information. That is, to be updated or whatever from a remote source, and that this could possibly influence people's brains in some way.

Only speculation, I know.

But you've brought up a topic that people have wrestled with for centuries. I wish you well in your endevour if you think you can crack this thing

[kenod]

I still feel it is also likely to entail a 'physical' mark...like the bible says....for buying and selling.

I already have electronic identification for buying and selling ... it is called a credit card.

Also, I have a compulsory licence so I can drive to work to earn money, so I can drive to the shop to spend it!

And of course my computer and cell phone are easy targets for the invasion of personal privacy.

I can't see why a Christian would object to a microchip implant, other than as a gross violation of civil liberty. In that case it is no longer a spiritual matter, and even the atheists would die to oppose its imposition. It would hardly be a subtle or deceptive move on the part of "the beast".

If we compare the way the godly are sealed in their foreheads, I think it gives us insight into how the mark of the beast is received.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have

sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads

.

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not

the seal of God in their foreheads

.

I don't want to get too anatomical, but the frontal lobes in your forehead are the source of judgement and personality. The mark in the hand is specifically said to be in the right hand, and a Scriptural search of "right hand" indicates that overwhelmingly it is a symbolic reference.

Could the mark of the beast involve some form of compulsory registration and identification? Sure, it could. But if you don't look for the spiritual significance behind what is happening, I'm afraid you could be deceived.

Just what I believe ....

Edited December 20, 2006 by kenod

[Guest man]

I still feel it is also likely to entail a 'physical' mark...like the bible says....for buying and selling.

Seems funny to me, since most everybody seems to think we live in the 'end times' right now - how there is also this mechanism coming into place (big brother, the RFID implant, etc) - also at this very time.

Don't you think the two could be connected?

We may believe we are living in the "end times", but believing it doesn't make it so.

[buckthesystem]

I know there will be a few different ideas on what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and probably there have been discussions on this subject in this forum before.

However, I would like to see what others think, and put forward a few ideas of my own.

OK, so we can't all be right, but perhaps if we keep in mind the things that are said, we may more easily recognize exactly what the "mark" is when it comes to pass ... if it hasn't already!

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

The Bible begins with deception by a beast (Gen3:1), and it ends the same way. Beneath all the symbolism, it is the same beast:

Rev 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which

deceiveth the whole world

: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

****************************************

I put "of" in your title for you...

Just some ideas, and a few different takes on what all of you have said already. I wanted to comment on a few of the things you all said in different posts, so I will just start again:

Quote, Kenod: " think it is clear from these and other indications, that the city is the Vatican, and the beast is papal succession. Some Popes have been notably good (JP11), but there have also been those who were corrupt and debauched. In the future, I believe such a man will gain control of the papacy".

This is certainly possible, but what about the EU? It seems logical to me that "a continuation of the old Roman empire" is the EU, and the EU fits the bill for everything else. "The city" would be the Hague in the Netherlands. The "Beast", possibly, has yet to emerge and could be an (as yet) up and coming European politician or bureaucrat. The lust for power is already there, in the form of the EU's desire to "control the world" through the international criminal court and the UN. UN headquarters might be in NY, but that doesn't mean that is in any way an American organisation. I believe that "the Harlot" is a one-world-religion (formed using the "popular" - in Europe anyway - idea of being "inclusive" and "blending" several beliefs together, even if they have nothing to do with traditional Christianity, and of course, leaving out the resurrection of Jesus). I know this is assuming a lot, but I can see it happening quite easily and a lot of people being fooled into believing in it.

There has been a couple of comments on the RFID implantable chip and its location. So here's another reason for "the chip" to be in the right hand or the forehead. I will quote from an article by Dr Carl Sanders, one of the inventors of the original microchip: " This microchip is recharged by body temperature changes. Obviously you can't go in and have your battery changed every so often, so the microchip has a recharging circuit that charges based upon the body temperature changes. Over one and a half million dollars was spent finding out that the two places in the body that the temperature changes the most rapidly are in the forehead (primary position), right below the hairline, and the back of the hand (alternative position). "

And about the comment on the "grievous sore" for those who take the MOB. Her's an interesting comment from Carl Sanders again: "There are 250,000 components in the microchip, including a tiny lithium battery. I fought them over using lithium as a battery source but NASA was doing a lot with lithium at that time and it was the going thing. I had talked to a doctor at the Boston Medical Center about what that concentration of lithium in the body could do if the chip broke down. He said that you would get boils or a grievous sore."

Now having said all that, personally I believe that the MOB COULD be the subdermal RFID chip, but it COULD also be a system of "registration" for purposes of "identification", i.e. a passport, driving licence or id card with the using the RFID chip. Without a passport you are effectively confined to your own country (and I'm pretty sure that an "internal passport" will soon be needed to travel within your country or continent) and without a driving licence you would not be able to "attend your market" (i.e. make a living, get money) and several countries are introducing an "id card" with a RFID chip in, without which you would be unable to buy or sell.

As for "idol worship", that could mean the worship of "money" - money being the idol.

Just a few points to ponder anyway. I don't mind if you tear these theories to pieces, that is what discussion is all about.