"The rest of the dead"

[Nero's Fiddle]

Re 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,

and judgment was given unto them: and I saw

the souls of them that were beheaded for the

witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and

which had not worshipped the beast, neither his

image, neither had received his mark upon

their foreheads, or in their hands; and they

lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Re 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the

thousand years were finished.

To your way of thinking, who exactly are these "dead"? Those throughout history who have died without Christ? All those, saved or not, who die before the mid-point of the Tribulation? If the latter is the case, then these "dead" will remain where until the end of the Millenium? I realise that this ties in very intimately with your views on the Rapture, so feel free to integrate that subject as well.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Nero,

To your way of thinking, who exactly are these "dead"? Those throughout history who have died without Christ? All those, saved or not, who die before the mid-point of the Tribulation? If the latter is the case, then these "dead" will remain where until the end of the Millenium?

We also have to look at the following verses:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:6 reflects on these verses:

1 Thess 4:14-17 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (THE FIRST RESURRECTION) 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together (WHAT WE CALL THE RAPTURE) with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This will bring us face to face in our new bodies with the Living Christ for the Bema Seat Judgment:

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat (GR. BEMA) of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

This is the FIRST judgment at which the saints will be rewarded according to the deeds done while in the body:

Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

AND I reiterate:

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In Rev 20:12-15 these are the dead who did NOT make it in the FIRST resurrection. These are they who have DENIED Christ. Notice that ALL the books were opened and NO reference is made to BELIEVERS being judged.

Some have speculated that AFTER the resurrection/rapture that there would be people saved. THIS IS FALSE and is found NOWHERE in the scriptures. The nations/peoples have to pay homage to the Lord as He reigns on this earth for 1,000 years, but NOWHERE does it say they ever get saved.

and so we conclude that the SECOND RESURRECTION/JUDGMENT is for the UNBELIEVERS:

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Regarding WHERE the dead are now, all I can do is reference these verses:

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

I believe this applies to all men, but I have to reflect on this parable:

Luke 16:20-26 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Is that what you wanted?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Nero's Fiddle]

Thank you very much! That was extremely helpful. I take it that you subscribe to the mid-trib rapture, then? Yes, this passage is much simpler when viewed in that light. Thank you also for the enlightening and relevant verses.

Your sister in Christ,

Nero's Fiddle

[Paul]

I believe that those who do not take the mark, are the "tribulation saints" and yes they will can be saved,as Rev 7.14 says,,,,,,,,do I know for a fact , no, but I guess I will ind out when I go home,,,,,God Bless all

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Nero,

I take it that you subscribe to the mid-trib rapture, then?

No, I am post-trib, premil. But I believe the end times trib period is ONLY 3 1/2 years in duration.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Uriah]

On 11/27/2003 at 5:19 AM, Nero's Fiddle said:

Re 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,

and judgment was given unto them: and I saw

the souls of them that were beheaded for the

witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and

which had not worshipped the beast, neither his

image, neither had received his mark upon

their foreheads, or in their hands; and they

lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Re 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the

thousand years were finished.

 

To your way of thinking, who exactly are these "dead"? Those throughout history who have died without Christ? All those, saved or not, who die before the mid-point of the Tribulation? If the latter is the case, then these "dead" will remain where until the end of the Millenium? I realise that this ties in very intimately with your views on the Rapture, so feel free to integrate that subject as well.

Hello, 

Here is my understanding (post trib): With Rev. 20 saying THIS is the first resurrection, that is when the rapture happened. It is obvious that Christ's bride is only then receiving her attire and can be seen shouting for joy immediately after the rapture -standing in the air- Rev. 19. This coincides with the time of the Great White Throne judgment. It is NOT 1,000 yrs. later, (you should draw parentheses starting at v. 5 and ending at the end of v. 10. Further verification is contained in Jesus' teaching about the sheep and goats, they are side by side and one group is about to be sent to hell. Furthermore Jesus said that ALL in the graves will hear His voice-and come forth.

So the only ones left after the 1,000 yrs to be judged are those who die in the millennium ad those who come against "the camp of the saints" in rev 20:9 after the end of the 1,000 yrs. (the rest of the dead)

[Revelation Man]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:07 PM, Uriah said:

Hello, 

Here is my understanding (post trib): With Rev. 20 saying THIS is the first resurrection, that is when the rapture happened. It is obvious that Christ's bride is only then receiving her attire and can be seen shouting for joy immediately after the rapture -standing in the air- Rev. 19. This coincides with the time of the Great White Throne judgment. It is NOT 1,000 yrs. later, (you should draw parentheses starting at v. 5 and ending at the end of v. 10. Further verification is contained in Jesus' teaching about the sheep and goats, they are side by side and one group is about to be sent to hell. Furthermore Jesus said that ALL in the graves will hear His voice-and come forth.

So the only ones left after the 1,000 yrs to be judged are those who die in the millennium ad those who come against "the camp of the saints" in rev 20:9 after the end of the 1,000 yrs. (the rest of the dead)

The Rapture {pre trib} the Jews who are raised at the end of the 70th week to stand in their lot at the same time the Martyrs in the Tribulation are raised, are all the First Resurrection, in that it is the Resurrection of those washed in the Blood of Jesus via Faith, both the Jews and Christian Gentiles BELIEVED on Christ OR the coming SEED and therefore are made whole by Faith. 

The REST OF THE DEAD mean all of those who are not in Christ. They will be raise at the Second Death.

Follow the Wheat and the Tares parables logic.

The Wheat {Israel} remain on earth with the Wicked Tares {evil men} on earth all the way to the end. Meanwhile the Church is Raptured pre 70th week. So in Rev. 14 we can see all of these three Harvests. We see the 144,000 {All Israel, more like millions} on Mt. Zion where Jesus returns to save them in verse 1, then in verses 18-20 we see the Wicked Tares who are BOUND UP {Killed and placed in the graves until 1000 years later} to be BURNED at a later date. But in verse 14 we have a sort of "SOLILOQUY" in which we are shown what happened to the Church, they were TAKEN OUT to be with Jesus, he did it from a cloud in the sky. 

So after the 1000 year reign, all the Wicked Tares will be RAISED UP at the Second Death, judged and burnt with fire.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Revelation Man

[BeauJangles]

Just an FYI. The OP and most of those who contributed to this thread have long since been inactive. Any reason in particular to resurface a topic from this date? November 27, 2003 in Eschatology

[missmuffet]

On 11/27/2003 at 2:19 AM, Nero's Fiddle said:

Re 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,

and judgment was given unto them: and I saw

the souls of them that were beheaded for the

witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and

which had not worshipped the beast, neither his

image, neither had received his mark upon

their foreheads, or in their hands; and they

lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Re 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the

thousand years were finished.

 

To your way of thinking, who exactly are these "dead"? Those throughout history who have died without Christ? All those, saved or not, who die before the mid-point of the Tribulation? If the latter is the case, then these "dead" will remain where until the end of the Millenium? I realise that this ties in very intimately with your views on the Rapture, so feel free to integrate that subject as well.

The tribulation saints. They refused to worship the beast in the 7 year tribulation and were martyred. 

[missmuffet]

11 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Just an FYI. The OP and most of those who contributed to this thread have long since been inactive. Any reason in particular to resurface a topic from this date? November 27, 2003 in Eschatology

Yes, it is a very old post.