"The rest of the dead"

[Omegaman 3.0]

It seems funny to be responding to a thread that is over 16 years old, and to a person who has not logged in in almost 13 years, but I will! Let's get the text on the page (from the Berean Literal Bible):

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one having a part in the first resurrection! Over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

Seems to me that in verse 4 we see that there are the souls of those who were beheaded. We see why they were beheaded - because they testified of Jesus and stood for the word of God. To me, that identifies them as Christians, non-Christians are not going to be willing to face death to testify about a savior they do not believe in. The comment that those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark, identify the time frame in view, these events are in the great tribulation. We also see what will be their destiny, that they are to reign with Christ 1000 years. More than that, we see that they not only were the slain (beheading tends to be fatal), but that they LIVED!

Now, this 1000 years (often referred to as the millennium) is after the tribulation, so we are talking about them living again, a resurrection. This is mentioned, and referred to in verse 5b: "This is the first Resurrection". Now next we see that those in the first resurrection are called blessed and holy. That seems to me to be another evidence, that these are people of faith, not unbelief. Remember that this is all about what the text calls "the first insurrection".

Now we know of course, that there are other people in the Bible, who have come back to life from the dead, and that this is not talking about them, or at least not them alone, since these believers specifically mentions, some at least, died in the great tribulation described in other biblical passages (Matthew 24, for example). Now what we have here, is an implication of another resurrection to come also, one that naturally follows the first resurrection.

This is also mentioned in this Revelation passage, though casually without real details. It is implicit it a what we would call a parenthetical statement:

Quote

The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. 

The translators could have rendered that using parentheses, in other word like this:

And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed). This is the first resurrection.

In other words, those in the first resurrection, are going to reign with Christ, while the rest of the dead, will not reign with Christ and will not be raised from the dead in the first resurrection, but in a subsequent one, after the 1000 years have been completed.

The passage went on to say, that for those in the first resurrection, the second death has no authority. Implication is here that there are two deaths. One is a death that almost all people have or will experience. Even Jesus died that way, a physical death. That is the enemy of physical life. There is another kind of death, spiritual death, this is (in my opinion) separation from God.

For Christians then, we are born once, physically, but we also have sin, and are dead spiritually, like everyone else, until there is a rebirth, Then we are born again, to new life. Ultimately that means we are born twice, but die only once. We can die physically, but once we are made spiritually alive, we do not die a second death, we are never separated from God.

For the unsaved, that is not the case. They are born once, are dead in the sins in life, but are not born again. They after they die physically, will also experience the second death, the permanent separation from God. They shall be raised to a sort of life, that is not life, but a judgement, a "life sentence" of death - eternal separation from God.

This should motivate us all the more to get the message of eternal life to them, while they still have physical life and an ability to hear that message. Bottom line to the OP, is that the rest of the dead, are those who are not in the first Resurrection.

Now, just to flesh out these details a little more, the beloved apostle Paul said this:

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Thanks Paul! So, if I understand you correctly, you are pointing out, that for those of us who are Christians, who have known other Christians who were near to us and have crossed over from physical life to physical death - there is no need to grieve deeply because they will rise and live again. We know that this is in the first resurrection, after the great tribulation, when the Lord visibly comes again to gather his saints! These dead in Christ, will rise first, and those of we Christians who are alive at His return will subsequently rise up to be with them (Jesus and the formerly dead believers) and meet them in the air, to be with the Lord forever. Hallelujah, those are indeed encouraging words!

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

So, just state the number of resurrections/raptures take place. 

I did..........TWO............The Resurrection of those in Christ/Believers and the Resurrection of those in Satan/Unbelievers. 

Try reading brother. 

Its like this, say a Dance was organized at a High School and they had a Two Part Dance every year. The Regular/Modern Dances of the Day called the First Dance and a 50's or Disco themed style dance later on called the Second Dance.

Lets say this first dance was so popular they had to do it in Sections. The First Dance had Dancers part A and Dancers part B that happened 1 hour apart. The Second Dance was usually much smaller and was just called the Second Dance. 

The First Dance is still the First Dance, the Second Dance is still the Second Dance. 

The World Series of Poker I think has like THREE or FOUR Day 1 Events {which happen on DIFFERENT DAYS}, its like A-B-C and maybe D. Because they have too many players for the building. So when Day Two kicks off, all of the First Day survivors of A-B-C-D begin play and the Second Day, but its actually like 5 days later.

Even men can do this, can't God ? 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Q: Do you view any scripture metaphorically (comparing spiritual things with spiritual 1 Cor. 2) ? 

 

 

Yes, when indicative.

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I did..........TWO............The Resurrection of those in Christ/Believers and the Resurrection of those in Satan/Unbelievers. 

Try reading brother. 

Its like this, say a Dance was organized at a High School and they had a Two Part Dance every year. The Regular/Modern Dances of the Day called the First Dance and a 50's or Disco themed style dance later on called the Second Dance.

Lets say this first dance was so popular they had to do it in Sections. The First Dance had Dancers part A and Dancers part B that happened 1 hour apart. The Second Dance was usually much smaller and was just called the Second Dance. 

The First Dance is still the First Dance, the Second Dance is still the Second Dance. 

The World Series of Poker I think has like THREE or FOUR Day 1 Events {which happen on DIFFERENT DAYS}, its like A-B-C and maybe D. Because they have too many players for the building. So when Day Two kicks off, all of the First Day survivors of A-B-C-D begin play and the Second Day, but its actually like 5 days later.

Even men can do this, can't God ? 

The way you wrote it was VERY confusing, if not outright disjointed. And here, I prefer to compare scriptures to scriptures instead of made up scenarios by men. These are not the kind of things that we can re-shape into man made reasoning and declare that it is not a contradiction of scripture. Like other pre trib practitioners, you are using sleight to re-define things like "first"resurrection" undoubtedly. All contortions to protect a pet doctrine. It turns into a Frankenstein creature, and like him, this monster will turn on those who perpetuate  it.

[Uriah]

51 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

If you don't mind,  could you give me an example of a verse that's indicative?

Sure. A woman clothed in the sun, a beast with 7 heads and ten horns etc. The context in the passage tells us quite a bit.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Who resurrected this old thread anyway?  

Oh, I see, it was Walter!!! 

[BeauJangles]

6 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

It seems funny to be responding to a thread that is over 16 years old, and to a person who has not logged in in almost 13 years, but I will!

Okay, too old. Sixteen years seems to be too far back in the archives. I'll pass. 

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, Uriah said:

The way you wrote it was VERY confusing, if not outright disjointed. And here, I prefer to compare scriptures to scriptures instead of made up scenarios by men. These are not the kind of things that we can re-shape into man made reasoning and declare that it is not a contradiction of scripture. Like other pre trib practitioners, you are using sleight to re-define things like "first"resurrection" undoubtedly. All contortions to protect a pet doctrine. It turns into a Frankenstein creature, and like him, this monster will turn on those who perpetuate  it.

I was just trying to find out if you read it {so that was meant as more of a question, did you read ? of sorts}, cause I didn't want to spend time replying if I had a skimmer or someone who skims over the post and then asks the same question. I can take a misunderstanding, I was probably a little sleepy, I think I rewrote/edited much of that post. But the stuff I am talking about is indeed hard to understand anyway. 

What I am using is scriptural. Its obvious the Rapture of the Church is pre 70th week. Just because you have never seen these arguments, doesn't mean the arguments are not valid. No one had ever heard Einstiens Relativity either.

God is giving us the end time answers during these end times, we need to stop looking to Men's Traditions of old.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I was just trying to find out if you read it {so that was meant as more of a question, did you read ? of sorts}, cause I didn't want to spend time replying if I had a skimmer or someone who skims over the post and then asks the same question. I can take a misunderstanding, I was probably a little sleepy, I think I rewrote/edited much of that post. But the stuff I am talking about is indeed hard to understand anyway. 

What I am using is scriptural. Its obvious the Rapture of the Church is pre 70th week. Just because you have never seen these arguments, does't mean the arguments are not valid. No one had ever heard Einstiens Relativity either.

God is giving us the end time answers during these end times, we need to stop looking to Men's Traditions of old.

 

I have heard the many arguments of the pre trib teachings. Many pre trib teachers and proponents are forced to interpret/define selectively and invariably make the scriptures collide into each other with contradictions.

[Uriah]

9 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

If you don't mind,  could you give me an example of a verse that's indicative?

There are many more that contain "symbolism". (especially in Revelation) If you would like we can discuss them.